Mooooooo.... wait, wrong animal. Neeeigghhh

[Iskender]

Research set to BW. The scout encountered a scorpion clan goblin so I moved him NE so he can circle the peak and bypass the goblin. An intrepid warrior known as DaveV is heading to the second lookout.

[Iskender]

T64:

Cities:

Production plans:

Ascot will train a scout and then warriors, interchangeably with a bigger build to avoid wasting overflow, Dereptus with 32 hammers already invested.

Epsom spams warriors. I believe the city's hammers will be better used for 3 more warriors instead of defensive infrastructure (Monument&Palisade) because in case of a fight we'd want to hit out of the city anyway - if we turtle, the priests will be able to wear us down in Epsom or just cast Slow and proceed towards the capital forcing us to hit out the city on their terms.


South:

The goblin is on the '70' sign. I adjusted the PoW arrival a bit, taking the goblin fort into account, but it's still overly pessimistic (for us) projection. Realistically we might see the priests near one of the lookouts around T69 or on T71-72 near Epsom/Aintree.

BTW Amelia got an Adventurer

[Iskender]

T65:

Another rookie takes on a goblin

And wins! In recognition of his prowess the warrior has been named Bagel the Bootylicious. Defensive + raiders is actually very good when it comes to training troops on barbs. If all these battles vs goblins had been 50% we'd have had a few 5xp warriors less (OK, there was some luck involved too).

Next turn: Illios the Irreplaceable skirmishes with a goblin at Epsom.


With a huge overflow in the capital I've decided to do a 1-turn build of Elder Council. In the best case it should shave 1 turn off of BW. Next turn: scout and then Dereptus/Warriors.

Lookouts are 1 tile away from their destinations.

[Iskender]

T66:

Illios vs a goblin. One could think that 91.4% odds is pretty high. Well, it's not.

But he won anyway He's up to 9xp

The lookouts are in position

Best rival soldier count increased this turn by 30k (65k->95k). Must be Serdoa summoning Ice Elementals, possibly to deal with the goblin fort. In the worst case he's cleared the fort and will move into the scout's FoV next turn.


Mainland:

(After thaking the screenshot I tweaked micro in the capital to get 40 raw beakers.)

Discovering BW scheduled for EOT 71. Things might get hot.


Military:

Epsom will train 3 more warriors until EOT 70 and Ascot 1 or 2 (more if needed).

[Iskender]

OK we've got contact.

Serdoa says hi:

[COLOR="Cyan"]Hi SL, Iskender,

my scout stumbled across your warrior this turn. I'm happy to finally meet you and hope for mutually beneficial deals.

Ok, lets just cut to the bone: We will soon only be 3 players left in this game I think (at least according to what Amelia wrote in the tech-thread). I don't see any sense in us two going to war with each other - we have already so much land to our own that we can easily expand the next 100 turns without getting into border tensions. And when we get border tensions, it will be with Krill due to his ability to expand like crazy. Warrens are outright scary in the hands of a player like Krill imo. So, I would like to propose to you that we sign a long-term NAP (for example tills Krill demise) and work together. SL, if you don't feel like that due to PBEM5, I am also fine with a long-term NAP till an exact specified point in time, i.e. T170. But honestly, I don't think anyone of us can win if we don't use your fast-movers and my spiritual enhanced AV-priest-mages together against the 3rd player.

Kind regards,

Serdoa[/COLOR]

I've replied with this:

[COLOR="Lime"]Hello Serdoa,

I'm writing to confirm that I have received your message. I'm subbing for Square Leg, who's on holiday. I need to confer with him before committing to anything, this might cause a little holdup of T67. I won't announce it in the tech thread to avoid collapsing the quantum state of the PoW for Krill and Amelia.

Iskender
[/COLOR]

The Illians have 4 cities and are in Aristocracy / Nationhood / Apprenticeship / Agrarianism. Among techs we can immediately research they have Education, Fishing, Hunting and Philosophy.

I think Serdoa's offer is genuine. Signing a NAP vs Krill is exactly what I had in mind. It'd be best if we reached an agreement before passing on the turn so we could adjust tech and builds already.

If we NAP the Illians I see three scenarios:

A. We switch back to eco mode. Start researching Edu->CoL and expand.
B. Finish BW and aid Serdoa's PoW with a dozen bronze warriors in hope of locating and hitting the Clan
C. Switch research to HBR and use Horsemen to catch up with the PoW.

I like B.

[Iskender]

Critical diplo this turn. The exchange between me and SL in reaction to Serdoa's message:

Hi iskender,

I've had a little too much sun and wine today to comment properly but I like what I have read!!! I don't know exactly why serdoa has offered this straight off the bat but he has, so let's take it. We need to establish a few things though:

Do we know krills location? Does he and serdoa have any deals?

Of the 3 options you outlined in the thread, I think we need to think about what the hippus do. They build shit loads of horse archers. We should definitely do that and as soon as possible. I would probably not want to send bronze warriors off now. The distances are huge and we cannot keep up with the priests. We either tech hbr and send some horses, or tech imo.

What do you think?

SL

Hey

The only thing I don't like about the offer is NAP until T170. If things go wrong, Krill survives and Serdoa grows strong we'd be locked in it for too long. I'll try to shorten it to T140 maybe. Long NAPs never work out on RB anyway. If he agrees to the NAP I'll switch to Edu. He might not have contact with Krill yet.

Iskender

I agree t170 is too long. We will be strongest about t140 so that sounds good. See what he wants re krill. Ie; does he want us to commit to an attack by any turn etc.

SL

He just wants a NAP and I guess a confirmation that we're willing to cooperate against Krill. This is what I've written so far:

Serdoa,

We find your idea to work together against Krill appealing. You're right, if left unbothered he'll spread all over Erebus like some kind of cunning, smug bacteria. Your offer sounds good, the only thing we'd change is the duration of the possible NAP - 100-turn long NAPs have proven to be frustrating for many players. Here's what we propose:

- we sign a NAP until Krill is defeated or T140, whichever happens first
- we join our forces in an attack against the Clan (either Horsemen + PoW or HA + your chosen 3rd tier units)


Iskender

Basically we like the idea to work together vs the Clan, but the NAP is too long. I offer Serdoa T140 and a joint early attack vs the Clan.

[COLOR="Lime"]Serdoa,

We find your idea to work together against Krill appealing. You're right, if left unbothered he'll spread all over Erebus like some kind of cunning, smug bacteria. Your offer sounds good, the only thing we'd change is the duration of the possible NAP - 100-turn long NAPs have proven to be frustrating for many players in the history of RB games. Here's what we propose:

- we sign a NAP until Krill is defeated or T140, whichever happens first
- we join our forces in an attack against the Clan
- we don't make deals with the Clan during the attack

We would contribute horsemen or horse archers, depending on when the attack would take place (the earlier the better)

Let us know if you find the offer acceptable.

Iskender[/COLOR]

The response is twice as long as the original message so apparently Serdoa didn't bite.

[COLOR="Cyan"]Hi Iskender, SL,

I am happy that we are on the same page here, at least basically. But there are some things I think I need to explain my stance and where it is coming from. Before I start with that though, let me be open: I have met Krill first (he is my neighbour) and I have a long NAP with him right now, so there will be no early attack. But that wouldn't work anyway (hence why I have a NAP with him). Let me explain:

This map is 52x32 big. You are directly opposite from Krill and even if you stick to your 3 cities and start cranking horses, by my count you won't have 20+ (and you would need those) before T85, probably even later. You need, even with 5-movers, probably another 20 turns to reach Krill, but even best case is probably 15. Thats T100 already. And realistically it's probably T110. At that time, Krill should be at 10+ cities already - half of them with Warrens (he has already built one, had some luck with popped techs). And he will have seen your military build-up. I am sure he will be able to build enough forces before you can reach him with your troops.

So, I really don't see us doing anything else then expanding and teching till at least T130. There is just too much land available for a war to work right now. Especially against the top-producer without collateral available. I know it is probably not what you guys wanted but there is no one left to use your horses against. Quite honestly: Stop thinking about an early war and get into econ-mode. You have lost both neighbours to your east (well, Amelila should soon be gone) and you have lost your neighbour to the south.

I do understand your reluctance to sign a long NAP but in this game we have only 3 contenders left. Either we work together or one of us works with Krill (even if only by attacking the other) and if that happens Krill has won. I am not sure if my priests could take you out right now but I am pretty sure you can't take me out either. But even if, what then? Losing 20+ turns for a war while Krill expands? Neither you nor I are going to be able to come back from such a blow.

And thats why I have an issue with a T140 NAP. Thats basically exactly long enough that we expand and maybe start building up our military a little. But we won't hit Krill much earlier then that. So, I propose instead

- NAP till the turn Krill is dead + 10 more turns to get the troops back home or T170 (whatever happens earlier)
- no working together with the Clan besides what is necessary to get you guys a NAP till expansion phase is over
- exchanging of resources and whatever else is possible in order to strenghten each other
- no settling by me above the horizontal lower water line (basically I don't settle up on you)

I understand that this was not your idea of this game and so if you have more fun with it, you can of course try to kill Krill or me with Horses right now. But it won't win anyone then Krill this game and I think it is time that he does lose one on RB, don't you think?

Kind regards,
[/COLOR]

Now that's interesting news. Krill is on the other end of the map (so scenario B is out) and the Illians and the Clan are neigbours. Nice. They have a long NAP. Not nice. Serdoa had a chance to take out the Clan before they start climbing the exponential curve for real, but he didn't. I wonder why.

Serdoa is right that the best choice for everybody under these circumstance is REX & tech. Where does it place us? We can't compete economically with Fin Kandros and Fin (in 3 turns I guess) Varn. For us HA are still the answer, I'm sure of that, in the mid-late game complemented by Rathas and Chalid. Serdoa seems to underestimate the power of HA in later stages of the game, maybe having an impression that we're the kind of early rushing civ, but that's not the whole picture. High mobility&withdrawal commando HA coupled with Blinding Light are the ultimate guerilla of death and I hope I'll have a chance to prove that.


NAP until T140 was to short for Serdoa so I offered T150 and added a "no Warcry vs the Illians" clause (I hope a relatively irrelevant one as we'd use it vs the Clan anyway)

[COLOR="Lime"]Hey Serdoa

Thank you for explaining your position. I though the Clan was somewhere closer. That would have made early attack more feasible.

I agree with the points you've made, particularly the necessity of working together to stop the Clan, however I still consider a 100-turn NAP too long. With the economic potential of this map T170 may be well into the lategame. I want to avoid signing a NAP that in the end could cause us extreme frustration ie. if we would be unable to prevent you from building the tower or the altar. (IOW we'd rather not be lordparkin'd)

Therefore my offer is: NAP until T150, other conditions stay unchanged, and I'll throw in a clause of not using Warcry vs the Illians (which effectively makes it a promise to use it against the Clan).
[/COLOR]

And we struck a deal.

[COLOR="Cyan"]Hey Iskender,

I am fine with that (especially as I fear we won't get the game played on anymore otherwise ). Maybe we'll find time later on to discuss some points about what can and can't be done right now.

Kind regards,
[/COLOR]

Back to the turn.

I changed production to Settler (instead of Deruptus) and two Monuments. Another goblin appeared NE of capital. Bagel was sent to protect the worker along with a scout to avoid losing the worker in case Bagel is defeated (5%).

The southern scout looked around and...

Double Gems! Awesome Maybe we didn't research BW in vain after all. How about D for the 4th city? Two FP and gems in 1st ring, one FP can be pre-improved. I'll check out what's on the other side of the river.

[Iskender]

T68:

Filling bars & boxes. Nothing interesting yet on the other side of the river.

[TheBagelProblem]

And wins! In recognition of his prowess the warrior has been named Bagel the Bootylicious.

Bagel was sent to protect the worker along with a scout to avoid losing the worker in case Bagel is defeated (5%).

Let the carnage begin...

Contrary to common legend, the bagel was not created in the shape of a stirrup to commemorate the victory of Poland's King Jan III Sobieski over the Ottoman Turks in the Battle of Vienna in 1683.

It was created in the shape of a stirrup to usher in an era of Hippus domination over Erebus.

[Brian Shanahan]

T68:

Filling bars & boxes. Nothing interesting yet on the other side of the river.

From looking at the tile bleed that's another FP 1NW of D. That's probably interesting enough for you.

[Iskender]

From looking at the tile bleed that's another FP 1NW of D. That's probably interesting enough for you.

Awesome. That's the third Flood Plain for the city. This turn the scout saw it (and it was good)

This looks like a top commerce city site. There are already 30 hammers invested in Deruptus in the capital, but maybe it'll be worth it to build it from scratch in the new city.


Another 70% fight won

The goblin in the north wasn't dumb enough to suicide into Bagel (I hoped he would). He decided to picket a mine instead.

I expect him to die next turn one way or another.

In other news: Serdoa founded 5th city and someone delivered a great sage into this world.

EOT demographics:

Pop analysis:

Grigori (238k) = 2 cities: 7 and 2
Clan (448k) = 3 cities: 8, 5 and 3 (I guess)