PBEM 18 Map thread

[xenin]

Since I'm still procrastinating actual work, screenshots for the lazy:

Hippus:

Vamps:

Sidar:

Elves:

[Commodore]

One thing that springs to mind is that the Hippus and Calabim have much stronger commerce specials, riverside gold and incense (with wines as backup!) are much stronger than cotton or silks, which is why the generator often clumps them. Might want to add extra to the Sidar and the Ljoswhydoesthisgamehatespelling.

*edit. If on the other hand, this is your way of boosting the obviously weaker two selections, that's fair and I can see your point.

[xenin]

I haven't tried to balance based on civ selection, the differences come from the fact that in general I've left the commerce resources that the original map generator put there. Do I think the sidar are broken on this map? Yes, and I can only think that people didn't play a raging barbs deity game before allowing it - I did a quick playthrough to turn 80 to check barb behaviour, and by then my starting archers had something like 135 experience between them, purely on the defence. With eitb waning at 17xp, more experience when you attack out at barbs, and other people suffering from tiles being camped/pillaged the sidar economy should be worth everyone else put together. (I'm not even convinced that the sidar needed the sandalphon changes, the divided soul changes and the waning xp change, but this map is one that would have made even the base-FFH sidar a top pick. But now we're hugely off topic). But I think the mapmaker is straying into dangerous territory when you start trying to balance based on your opinions of player skill/civ quality. Better to just let the players play the game they wanted.

Anyway I'm not sure how easy it is to see on the screenshot, but part of the weaker commerce specials is offset by the floodplains/oasis the sidar and the elves get. I don't think it's perfectly balanced but I don't think that's possible without substantial mirroring, especially when everyone has to get 2 balanced city sites, and the request was for natural over balance.

[xenin]

Well, I'm assuming the lack of people screaming oh god don't give them that means the map is at least close to acceptable, so I'm proposing to give it to the players tomorrow, so 24 hours ish to go if you have more feedback.

Just cutting the top of the world off seemed to work fine, so I've done that. The other changes in this version are pretty minor - I added the missing unique features since I just realised they wanted all unique features enabled, and did a little bit of deforestation on the non-elf starts to make sure they aren't choked for workable tiles pre-mining.

[Square Leg]

I think that the game needs to be palyed to see if the sidar are broken but I wouldn't have thought they are.

I have been playing some SP in EitB as the sidar and they are now a very good civ for sure - I say lets see what they can do.

I would however move a commerce special closer to their start so that they can have one like everyone else if they SIP.

Something I would mention though is to not leave the special commerce tiles forested as it will take non elf civs until mining to connect them. (checks again and it is the elves who have a forested silk )

I would also give everyone PH start or no one a PH start as the extra hammer from settling on a PH can be quite important.

Other resources that you should be careful about are:

- copper
- mana
- Iron
- Mithryl (I guess!)
- Horses (Deer for the elves, pig for stunties)
- Marble

Make them all as hard or as easy to acquire as you like - just pretty much the same for everyone!

Disclaimer - I have only looked at your screenshots as I can't access the WB file at the moment. (Or I'm just lazy! )

It looks like a cool start for everyone - It is always nice to have expansion choices and there seem to be plenty!

[xenin]

And of course SL times it just as I assume nobody else is going to chime in and give everyone screenshots of the starts Fortunately I left myself a get out clause.

At the minute everyone has copper and a mana at likely starting positions, and nobody has iron/mithril except at the whim of the barb city RNG spawner. You're probably right about the plains hill, I'll have a look when I get a minute later. Sidar are the only civ with marble at the start (just because the map generator put one there). They do have probably the worst start commerce wise; do you think the marble instead comes under nice map variety or nasty map imbalance?

I'm also slightly worried that the Elf start is now relatively weak; I might replace that jungle silk in the south with a forest silk to encourage them to head down there.

edit: I think the vamps have horses close to a likely spot, the elves have deer close to likely capital, and the hippus obviously start with horse, but I'm not sure if sidar do; I'll check and add it if not.

[xenin]

Another random question for people to consider: Bob's post made me realise I screwed up and put the broken sepulcher too close to a start location; I didn't realise it was inside the unfogged square and somehow didn't spot it when giving him his screenshot

I don't think it's fair to move it just because he's noticed it and plans to pop it at once, but I think it's better for the game overall if there are some limitations to popping the features on turn 1 - the archers are meant to be there to ward off anyone getting RNG-eliminated by swarms of barbs, not to encourage everyone to play recklessly in the hopes of getting a big headstart. So I'm considering putting a weak held defender on the unique features - nothing that really slows down a determined effort to pop, but something that stops a scout turn 1 pop. But I'm not sure if that's consistent with the mapmaker instructions for a lightly edited world. Opinions?

[Gaspar]

Another random question for people to consider: Bob's post made me realise I screwed up and put the broken sepulcher too close to a start location; I didn't realise it was inside the unfogged square and somehow didn't spot it when giving him his screenshot

I don't think it's fair to move it just because he's noticed it and plans to pop it at once, but I think it's better for the game overall if there are some limitations to popping the features on turn 1 - the archers are meant to be there to ward off anyone getting RNG-eliminated by swarms of barbs, not to encourage everyone to play recklessly in the hopes of getting a big headstart. So I'm considering putting a weak held defender on the unique features - nothing that really slows down a determined effort to pop, but something that stops a scout turn 1 pop. But I'm not sure if that's consistent with the mapmaker instructions for a lightly edited world. Opinions?

I'd leave the features as is. Bob has been super adamant about wanting a lightly edited map and we all know he's spoiling for a fight. They wanted a world to explore, that will leave some random fluctuation. The only thing I might do if I were you is make sure they all have a lair of some sort they can pop nearish home. Perhaps move Pyre, Bradeline's Well and Maenelus nearish the other players starts? And maybe scatter a dungeon by the Maenelus player since that will take more effort to pop?

Ultimately, they want a random game, give them a random game.

[xenin]

Thanks Gaspar, I think that's a pretty decent solution. I've done the last minor tweakings, (plains hills equalised, checked strategic resources, deleted goblins) so I think we're ready to go...