[Spoilers] Commodore as Washington of the Mongols

[oledavy]

They're good Commodore, and I'm looking forward to the battles to come.

Likewise

Good Luck!

[Commodore]

Likewise

Good Luck!

*cough* So yeah, about that.

Mackoti's transports took Satyr, burned my coastal fp city, and were about to torch my entire inner sea coastline, when:

Mackoti: hi

Commodore: Hey Mack

Mackoti: did you got my mail?
1:13 PM
Commodore: Ah, yeah, what's up?
8 minutes
1:22 PM
Mackoti: well i said before procediing and taking and razing more cities to give peace a chanse

i declared war because i was mad , and becasue TT realy played me
1:23 PM
Commodore: Wow, how did he play you?
1:24 PM
He has insane number of pikes I see. :P

Mackoti: well he said you will atack

so he he cat defend against you

cant
1:25 PM
Commodore: Hah, that's what he said about you. I think we played us both.

Mackoti: and i was saing comm with low power gets more then me

so i said lets make some worries fore commodore

for
1:27 PM
actualy its simple i want 1000 gold, and 150 gold /turn that makes 2500 gold and we ahve nap for next 20 turns and after that a 5 turn canceling Nap
1:28 PM
Commodore: Hrm, that's expensive.

Mackoti: i think 2 cities which i can raze this its worth that

Commodore: Now that I have to burn a merchant for a GA. :P

Mackoti: turn

its size 16

and 1 more next turn

Commodore: Yeah, I know the one.
1:29 PM
Mackoti: more tahn 2500

in my opinion

Commodore: How about 2500 for a 25 turn NAP, delivered as soon as I can.

Then the rolling 5 turn after.
1:30 PM
But, if we do that I will need gems gifted.

I had 6 cities go unhappy.

Mackoti: and you dont interfere anyway in my war with tt

Commodore: Hrm, not more troops to him.
1:31 PM
Mackoti: or info ar everithing

Commodore: If he is crumbling he said I could capture Reach, not sure if you have seen in.

Mackoti: well i will raze that one

Commodore: It would be totally crushed by my culture if you took it.

Ah, fair enough
1:32 PM
Mackoti: i kow you have cathedral there

Commodore: TT and I have been fighting for culture there all game.

Mackoti: what means when you can?

you colect gold and after gift?
1:33 PM
Commodore: Yes.

Mackoti: well i can give you gems when the city its comming out revolt

Commodore: Fair enough.

Mackoti: i need one gem for me

so we have deal
1:34 PM
- gem when city came out revolt

Commodore: -2500 gold as soon as I have it.

Mackoti: -gave 2500 for 25 turns nap

after that 5 turn rolling nap

Commodore: Right, I'll be running full gold as soon as I can.

Sounds good.
1:35 PM
Mackoti: well i will offer peace in game

Commodore: Cool, sounds good.
1:36 PM
Mackoti: i have my match with TT

i will never believe him after this one

Commodore: He played us well I think. :P
1:37 PM
Mackoti: but lyeing and not keepimg his worf

word

well i can play some one this way too
1:38 PM
Commodore: Should be fun to watch.

Mw...mwuhahaha! This is my best shot, I will happily take a 2500gold/city of Satyr hit for the chance to win here. Mackoti is an impressive conquest player, good reader of demos, and terrifying general.

I never intended to win by besting him in combat. 25 to 30 turns of peace, though? With TT nullified to my south and Gaspar a long trek away overland, not to mention behind a 7-turn rolling NAP? Yeah, it's time to activate closely-held endgame plan A. So of course I accepted Mack's peace:



His powerful navy is now in retreat, leaving behind ruins and wounded pride, but an intact Mr. Commodore. My cavs are milling around uselessly, after being so very ready to retaliate for more city burnings. They can just get over that nonsense.



Not much else is going on in the wider world. TT is about to burn, although I'm certain it'll be a loooong slog through all those many many pikes. It at least gives Gaspar more time to prepare.



The great and powerful RNG evidently approves. Popped another one!



Anyway, here's the victory plan. Whadaya think?





Golden Age in one or two turns, to swap to the final configuration of US/FS/Caste/FM/Pacifism. Building anti-Gaspar forces is going to hurt the pocket book in that civic setup, but I've got no other way of efficiently starving down a couple of my biggest western cities in sweltering Great Artist camps, I figure in the next 25 turns I need to have five more to make it. Thank you, Gaspar, for trading me a GA for Great Prophet, it'll be very helpful!

Gentlemen, Turn 165 is our target date. Infrastructure is in place, let's make this world Mongolian.

[pindicator]

Culture has never looked so evil. Brilliant! I look forward to seeing it play out.

[Commodore]

Culture has never looked so evil. Brilliant! I look forward to seeing it play out.

Thank you sir. It's not a great chance, please note, just the best chance I'm going to get. The event log shows what I've been focusing on of late:



As you can see, my core is sweating out the last religion-swapping, culture-building bits and pieces. Efficient culture wonders are finishing up, and there are now swarms of religions having their cathedrals unlocked.



The choice is whether or not I fire off a Golden Age now with the GE and one of the two GAs, or push out a quick Not-GE here in Manticore first to save the artist. It's something I need to decide soon, I can get Liberalism in one more turn and then it's Free Speech time.



Choices, choices eh? I think the GA fire will be best, honestly.

[Ceiliazul]

I think the GA fire will be best, honestly.

One of the weaknesses in my game is that I'm not sure how to calculate the value of a golden age. I know *what* it does, but how can you quickly see how many tiles would be effected?

Anyway, the most important effect is probably the GPP for you right now. If you're generating *more* gpp now than you will be in a few turns, pobably best to fire it now. If you'll be pumping more gpp at that later date, the multiplier will be more valuable (not to mention saving an existing great artist).

[Commodore]

One of the weaknesses in my game is that I'm not sure how to calculate the value of a golden age. I know *what* it does, but how can you quickly see how many tiles would be effected?

Anyway, the most important effect is probably the GPP for you right now. If you're generating *more* gpp now than you will be in a few turns, pobably best to fire it now. If you'll be pumping more gpp at that later date, the multiplier will be more valuable (not to mention saving an existing great artist).

It really is all about the GPP for this particular Golden Age. I'm planning of starving down two or three cities to get Great Artists, and then a natural one from Naga (GP farm) and then starve down Naga for the final fifth or sixth Artist. The big deal is that Manticore has the mixed 400 point pool lurking there...with GE points floating around in there. I'm considering looking to see if I can get a three-turn G-notE there with only a two population loss, but that might be a bit difficult, especially as I want to build mosque there too before the big push. I'll just have to fiddle with things next turn to see what I can do.

[Commodore]

Right, so, turn. First of all, I know I'm the only one reporting on the TT/Mackoti war, so let's take a look-see. First off, the annoying city of Reach is at last gone, so that's an objective down. Pay no heed to the foolish settler, I need to avoid that temptation I think.



Insane Million-Man Defense (the IMMD) is still going strong, although TT is also scrambling to ensure flankers don't take everything behind the great fortress cities. I think those stacks might get killed by striking before getting killed with bullets.



I checked what happens when someone sets me up da bomb, is that +2680 counting the effects of the two cathedrals already, or it is multiplied further? I think that's all effects baked in.



Cassandra hit me up in chat, of course:

Commodore: Hey Gaspar.

Clever ploy, tossing your opponents into late-game civics on turn nine.
12:44 PM
Gaspar: lol

You do what you must to win!



Commodore: Bravo, well played.
12:45 PM
Nope do the same trick to toss Sian into serfdom.

Gaspar: lol
12:46 PM
Did mackoti keep reach in 24? That would make me nervous if I were you.

Commodore: Nope, he burned it.

Gaspar: Ah okay

Didn't get a razed message
12:47 PM
Commodore: Someone gave TT enough gold to get to steel and cavs to retake anything but a megastack.

I didn't claim Mack DoWing me was unfair.

Gaspar: lol

TT has Steel?

Man this map is really easy mode

Commodore: Yeah, crazy little dude
12:48 PM
He has Steel but he's medieval everywhere else.
12:49 PM
Gaspar: So are you going to grab Free Speech then try and grab a cultural victory?

Commodore: Gee, that'd be nice.
12:50 PM
Care to sell me Taoism/Judaism?

I passed the Free Speech cost effective point half a dozen turns ago.

Gaspar: You already have 4 religions in all your potential legendaries. That should be enough?
12:51 PM
Commodore: Not against humans, I think.

Gaspar: Hrm.

Surprised you didn't go for Sistine.

Commodore: Wanna buy a blimp or two, by the way?
12:52 PM
Gaspar: I saw yours in Cockatrice and thought about it. I should have Physics soon enough though.

Commodore: Music is for people who don't crash their economies.

Gaspar: lol

Its funny, I'm pretty clearly the bpt leader now.
12:53 PM
But I'm so far behind mackoti

It doesn't matter at all

I'm tempted to try and goad him into a space race to see if I can catch up, though.

Commodore: That might be fun to see.

Gaspar: You could definitely win Cultural before then, of course.
12:54 PM
Commodore: I get the impression Mack's more a Domination player, though.

Gaspar: Yeah

I don't see how you get Domination on this map at this point, though.

I guess he has enough of a hammer advantage

that he could crush us both eventually.
12:55 PM
Commodore: Yeah, Libing Communism is pretty much the win there.

Gaspar: I mean he could crush me in 2 seconds right now lol
12:56 PM
But I hope to have an army worth discussing soon.

Commodore: Infantry/cannon/MG your limit, or going to push to navy and tanks?

Gaspar: Well, have no choice but to get a navy

since he has one
12:57 PM
And if I'm going that far, just another tech or two for tanks.

But I'll probably do a bit of both

Getting some defense in place with what I can build now, then doing the more advanced stuff for counter-attacks.
12:58 PM
Commodore: Well, my second-best hammer city is the securest port in the world, feels like.

Man that Moai island is nice.

Gaspar: Yeah

Really nice
12:59 PM
Commodore: I'm about to hit the GA button if I can get a good GP to enable chaining them.

Probably should fire it even if I don't.

Gaspar: Well

Only so much time to wait

Commodore: Some of us aren't Phi or Spi.

Gaspar: I'm going to fire the next one soon as well

50/50 whether I get another one after that
1:00 PM
Commodore: Yeah.

Here's to pure pools!

Gaspar: What is the pure pool you speak of?

Commodore: If I get another GE or GA I'm going to scream.,

Gaspar: lol

If I get another GA I will probably smash my computer into a billion little pieces
1:01 PM
Commodore: Why the artist pollution?

Beyond the obvious NE.
1:03 PM
Gaspar: Well

The NE is one

Parthenon was another

Commodore: Oh, naturally.

Gaspar: And Sistine was the third
1:04 PM
all 3 were less than 15% odds

Commodore: Half-Phi shenanigans.

Sigh, that sucks.

Gaspar: Yeah
1:05 PM
Commodore: Well, bulb Radio maybe?
1:06 PM
Gaspar: Yeah, have to clear out some dross first though.

Oh actually
1:07 PM
I think I have everything before Radio on the preference list

Except Mass Media, obviously

Commodore: Well, Radio is before MM

Gaspar: only shaves like a turn off

Commodore: It's how I came within a turn of snagging the UN. :P

Gaspar: but I don't really have anything else to use it on
1:08 PM
Commodore: Yeah, late-game bulbs are sad.

Gaspar: My lurkers wanted me to bomb macks border cities

But I'd prefer not to kick the hornet's nest.

Commodore: Hah, not until you have machine gun nests of your own, at least.
1:09 PM
Lurkers are bloodthirsty bastards.

Gaspar: Very true.

Especially when you update infrequently and they have even less investment than normal.
7 minutes
1:17 PM
Commodore: Hey, they have needs.

Lurkers are all pouty, I'm trying to airship report on the TT/Mack war.

No reportage out of either one there.

Gaspar: Yeah
1:18 PM
Sounds like a bit of it might have been interesting, too.

Commodore: Report for you: TT still crazy, has millions of troops being whittled down.
1:19 PM
Gaspar: he has about as much power as the two of us combined

Commodore: I think my gifts might have bought you 8 or 9 turns.

Gaspar: when you consider all the soldier points techs we have he doesn't

thats a lot of medieval garbage

Commodore: Yeah, it's impressive.

Mack has been gnawing at the bit.
1:20 PM
Gaspar: You could have bought me more by staying at war with Mackoti :P

Commodore: Hah, no I would not have.

Gaspar: Takes time to get rolled over

Commodore: He wasn't going to face a billion cavs on land, he was just going to raze my coast.
1:21 PM
While my cav stacks looked on, feeling very impotent.

Gaspar: Still takes time? :P
1:22 PM
Commodore: Heh, it would have taken three turns.

Maybe four as I piled in a TT-size stack in Hippocamp.

That banana city is nice.

Gaspar: Yeah
1:23 PM
Having TTs map

makes it apparent why he's a bad player

Did you see where he put Moai?

Commodore: Demos didn't do that enough already?

Gaspar: lol

Commodore: Yeah, he crippled his island city.

Gaspar: yeah
1:24 PM
me you and mack all have these huge productive cities there

and he has a size 6 runt

Commodore: It's crazy.

He seems to be gearing up very slowly, though.



All that is secondary to the planned artistic starvation of my empire. I'm working hard at spreading religions everywhere, just need one more Christianity spread and two more of Islam and I'll have the needed cathedrals ready to go.



My anti-boat defenses are minimal, hiding behind my treaties here. Managed to keep Harpy from starving though! I fully expect to lose it in the endgame scorched earth battles.



I toyed with the notion of Versailles in Sphinx, lovely 10cpt output, but the seven turns of hammers would be better spent on building culture, I think, especially as I'm about to lose OR.



Manticore enjoys one more turn of happy normalicy before starving its way to a Great Somebody. Two more turns, fellas, then we launch the golden age of death and culture.



Should be fun, eh?

[pindicator]

Two more turns, fellas, then we launch the golden age of death and culture.

QFT!

:2dance:

[Commodore]

So before we can launch Operation Starving Artist, here's to Operation Starving Priest. Phase One this turn was to make enough GPP to one-turn a Great Somebody next turn, without going down a population point. Working just the wet wheat, deer, and flood plain town gave me just enough food to deplete the box but not starve down.



So then, next turn, we have 536-472=64 more GPP needed, and by tossing the final three outer workers into the priest/ scientist pool, we'll have 66 GPP at EoT. Assuming the engineer points don't bite me in the butt () that will be another Great Person to start a Golden Age with. Angkor Wat priests mean I'm able to keep on making the culture buildings I need too, next turn an Islamic temple to enable Sphinx to make a mosque.



Hopefully, in a couple more turns, this graph will go "zoom-zoom".



The final necessary tech is in place now, Free Speech is open. I considered Free Religion for all of ten seconds, but an extra 3-4 culture per turn is nothing compared to an extra artist or two from Pacifism.



I hate being nice to Mack, but he'd slaughter me without notice if I pissed him off. Even with the awesome power of Hindu Pope backing me up, I opted for the "not poking the temperamental bear" option here. Why is the victory vote not an option, though?



I spy with my little eye, a canal about to break everything wide open. The two fortress cities practically have to be bypassed, so Mack is going for the amphibious option. I'll miss you, trade routes.



I'm not above a little opportunism, though. Three food resources and mature towns? Yeah, I kind of had to resettle in Reach's position. It also gives a good choke-point to funnel Mack or Gaspar at the most isolated of my legendary cities. A single point of egress, on flatland? Sure, that's also known as "the best shot I get".



Yuri, Ceil, any thoughts on how to maximize this venture? I'm sorry for a lack of "Mongolian Ride of the Damned", lurkers, but this I shall certainly try to make equally entertaining.

[oledavy]

I'm sorry for a lack of "Mongolian Ride of the Damned", lurkers, but this I shall certainly try to make equally entertaining.

idk about anyone else, but I'm finding this pretty interesting. If you manage to pull off a culture victory here....