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mackoti · December 21st, 2011, 05:59

well, those cities will be a pain for you,in my game with lewwyn he gave a city i build there all culture posible,but his culture reamins there when cuzco will expand again borders will take all your tiles.
Just a pain.

pindicator · December 21st, 2011, 13:45

mackoti Wrote:well, those cities will be a pain for you,in my game with lewwyn he gave a city i build there all culture posible,but his culture reamins there when cuzco will expand again borders will take all your tiles.
Just a pain.

Yeah, I am probably going to finish the deal as soon as the NAP ends on t135 if I can't get the culture situation going my way. But what may work in my favor is that I will have several cities putting culture into these tiles were he just has one. Does anyone remember the formula for putting culture into tiles? IIRC it's the city's culture + 20 for every ring in you go from the outer-most.

If that's the case, I think once I get to 3rd ring in these cities I'll be able to hold on to the first ring around them. So we are going to get theaters in those cities right away. Since I'm going the religious route, I'll be putting temples and monestaries up as well, so that can only help.

oledavy · December 21st, 2011, 14:33

pindicator Wrote:If that's the case, I think once I get to 3rd ring in these cities I'll be able to hold on to the first ring around them. So we are going to get theaters in those cities right away. Since I'm going the religious route, I'll be putting temples and monestaries up as well, so that can only help.

The Sistine Chapel might help to that end, and it meshes well with running a priest economy. Has anyone taken the Music Great Artist yet? I can't remember for this game.

pindicator · December 21st, 2011, 15:03

Yep, that great artist is the source of Rego's golden age.

Music is an interesting thought, but where to fit it in? I'm starting to feel more and more comfortable with Divine Right (6) -> Nationalism (8) as my tech path, and using that time to get infrastructure up in my cities. 14 turns is a high-end estimate; if anything that will decrease as I think I'm low-balling my break-even tech rate at 200bpt. And I'm already committing on building Apostolic Palace, Spiral Minaret, and hopefully Taj and Parthenon (starting that next turn), so while Sistine's would be nice, I don't think it's going to be necessary enough to tech Music.

Hmmm... wonders... I'm going to want to figure out when my next few great people are coming. It'd be nice to get a golden age sooner rather than later.

pindicator · December 21st, 2011, 22:32

Turn 106

More domestic stuff. I'm saving gold, but I did put my overflow into Divine Right. Once again, should have saved that great prophet, it would probably save me a couple turns here. DR will be done in 7 turns but maybe I can squeeze that down to 6.

Started Parthenon in FAP, due to finish t110.
Apostolic Palace will finish t111.

I switched NIRA to a theatre; it starved down a population, but next turn we'll be able to 2-pop whip it. Figured this was better than 2-pop whipping a courthouse this turn and then waiting forever for the theatre.

Whipped forges in NRA, NLRA, and NLRB. NLRA will start FP next turn, and it should finish t110. Aside from the maintenance help, it also generates 4 culture per turn. NLRA is goign to get a buddhist missionary to help the FP along.

I guess if I wanted to I could try to figure out the best way to get all these missionaries built and moved around.

Ceiliazul · December 22nd, 2011, 00:17

pindicator Wrote:I guess if I wanted to I could try to figure out the best way to get all these missionaries built and moved around.

So you're saying missonaries arent as exciting as Berserks? Who'da thunk.

pindicator · December 22nd, 2011, 13:22

Ceiliazul Wrote:So you're saying missonaries arent as exciting as Berserks? Who'da thunk.

I'm a sucker for micro, what can i say?

Looks like we can get buddhism spread to 10 cities (FCA, FCC, FDIC, FLA, FMP, FHA, FSRC, NIRA, NLRA, NRA) within the next 10 turns (t116). 10 turns is significant because if I'm right the economic fireworks start happening on t118. If I can get buddhist buildings in most of those cities by t118 we should get a very nice jump out of Spiral Minaret.

And there's a good chance I'm wrong.

But what I shouldn't be wrong about is our next great person: due in 10 turns, if we land Parthenon. That will be golden age #1

pindicator · December 22nd, 2011, 16:06

Turn 107

Sian's pissed. He guessed at Rego and I being buddy buddy and I admitted to it. Now he's yelling at me for handing rego the game. I'm going to stop talking wtih him in chat, because he's starting to push my buttons and I'm going to get mean if I don't stop talking.

[SIZE="3"]PBEM 23 spoilers within.[/SIZE]

Too late.

Yes, I effectively lost the game within the first 50 turns. I misplayed the opening, tried to get cute with building nav-galleys instead of granaries, and didn't even get circumnavigation for it. Then I tried to pick up MC with the Oracle instead of realizing I was in a race and going for the sure thing. Have I learned from it? Damn, I hope so. (Edit: I play to have fun, not to min/max for a win. I don't regret that I lost out on some of my objectives, but I'm still having fun with the game. I'm sorry that Sian isn't, I really am.)

But can't you make the same argument that Sian lost it by failing his diplomacy with Gaspadore? (Otherwise he attacks Rego.) Or gaspadore lost it by fighting a failed war against Sian? The only one I wouldnt' blame for Rego winning is Yuri - he just had the bad luck of being next to me.

Anyway, the turn.

All that forge overflow went into the FP, and I can whip FP next turn for 4 pop, so I probably will. Yuri gifted me the first of our 2 settlers; he's going to refound on the ruins of Ica. Anybody know an agency that ends in -ICA?

I'm going to ask Rego for a loan. Or I'll sell him some galleys. Otherwise I don't see how I get to DR on time. Maybe the FP helps when I whip that. Maybe I don't whip it. It's hard to care now. Thanks Sian, there's your revenge.

oledavy · December 22nd, 2011, 16:49

pindicator Wrote:I'm going to ask Rego for a loan. Or I'll sell him some galleys. Otherwise I don't see how I get to DR on time. Maybe the FP helps when I whip that. Maybe I don't whip it. It's hard to care now. Thanks Sian, there's your revenge.

Let me prefix this with I have nothing against Rego, and am not making this post to try and change the course of this game.

However, I humbly submit that you can always break off your alliance with Rego - just outright tell him it's not working anymore and end it.

My priorities in a game of civ are:

1. Having Fun
2. Being An Honorable Player
3. Winning

If this game is no longer fun for you because there's a good chance you're playing towards an inevitable Ottoman victory, change your course. There's a big gap in my mind between NAP-stabbing someone and breaking off an alliance with a runaway.

pindicator · December 22nd, 2011, 17:52

oledavy Wrote:My priorities in a game of civ are:

1. Having Fun
2. Being An Honorable Player
3. Winning

QFT

I still am having a lot of fun with this game, the recent session with Sian not-withstanding. Right now I'm out drinking coffee and surfing employment ads so i can clear my head. (That and I need a job.)

I really admire how you've kept battling on in pbem17, davy. How when things went wrong you reassess and find new goals to shoot for. For me, that is how i want to play. That was one of the things that drew me to this site, back in the civ3 days when it was more to do with variant play and people really stressed the "never give up" philosophy. I think I've done well at showing resilience in this game, and i don't plan on changing: there will be plenty more crazy plans that don't work in the future, and hopefully even more that do. I'll get cute with my plans again (e.g. Divine Right >> Nationalism) and maybe i pay for it, but maybe it pays off. Most of all, it will be fun. Fun to plan, and fun to see how it plays out.

But getting beat over the head by Sian's Flaming 2h Optimal-Play Stick of Frustration is decidedly un-fun.

I actually have thought about talking to Rego about dissolving the alliance. I wouldn't do anything like stab him, considering the alliance was my idea to start with I think if we did speak about it and come to an arrangement about how to wind it down then that would be fine. The thing is I am having fun working with Rego. The whole be allies but secretly undermine via other parties without getting caught thing is fun. (There's also a fine line there as to being dastardly, like stabbing him in the back, which i hope I haven't crossed. If you lurkers see something you think is across the line, I'd appreciate you speaking up, if only to have a conversation about it.) Also, the idea of catching Rego is fun. It may even be more playing catch-up with an obvious goal of what to shoot for than it would be for me to be in a commanding lead. Edit: I've pulled it off once already, catching him in tech and passing him in gnp before starting on the war prep! Who says i can't do it again?

Okay, so back to fun. I think I'll start tracking culture in the tiles around The Gift, as I've taken to calling the cities gained by my war with Yuri (yes, I've stolen that phrase from Mr. R. R. Martin). We can see if the progress and how much culture needs to be put in place there. I'm more and more confident I have can have a lot of Buddhist buildings in place by turn 118 -- at least 30 -- but I'm less confident that I can have Spiral Minaret by then. Whipping FP next turn will help, but I'm going to ask Rego about a loan. And then we'll see. Wheh, I'm a already feeling better.

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