Some noob-ish FFH2 questions

[Mist]

I've hit the mid game and the dreaded "what now", I guess. Any advice for a noob on how to start pushing towards victory? The Altar requires a lot of prophets which I am not really set up for. I am not sure how the religious victory works. Tower of Mastery seems sort of like a SS victory, with lots of tech and building towers (parts). Conquest or domination of course could be done, and starting some wars and learning how to fight in FFH would probably be very useful. Diplo...is there a diplo equivalent in FFH?

Altar requires more tech than Tower and as you noted requires some preparation first.
Culture is in the same category ( lots of groundwork needed first ) but much cheaper in tech terms.
Religious victory requires 80% (?) of world pop to follow your state religion, in practical terms it means get open borders with everyone, set your temples in their cities ( priests ability ) and inquisition any other religions present ( priest ability again, requires promotion spent ). If someone does not want to open borders, conquer them and problem solved.
There is no Diplo equivalent ( as in AP or UN resolution ).
The easiest victory to pursue in your situation would be the Tower, especially with 4 nodes under control. If you put away some cash to rush some/all of the part it will come much faster.

Also, how do you fight pyre zombies? If they explode when killed, then even killing them will damage/kill your units. Not sure how to handle this. My mages could hit them with Destroy Undead, but I really don't want to lose my mages. Any suggestions appreciated!

Destroy Undead doesn't cause them to explode, they only blow up if killed in combat, so any spell that kills them is good. Apart from that Slow ( Ice 1 ) and Blinding Light ( Sun 2 ) are pretty helpful, so are temporary summons, especially Fireballs and Fire Elementals ( collateral ) or Host of E ( Spirit ( or maybe Law? ) 2 ).

[haphazard1]

Thanks, Mist!

Tower definitely sounds like it would fit my empire the easiest, now that I have a decent number of nodes. I have several excellent hammer cities, plus a spare GE snoozing in my capital that could be useful as well.

Religion would definitely require some drastic measures, as the Khazad are RoK and a couple civs on my continent are OO and none of them like me enough to open borders.

Might be worthwhile to try my hand at conquest or domination, just to get the FFH warfare experience I am sure I will need for future games at higher difficulty levels. Plus it should be fun. I am developing all these neat toys, be a shame not to use them....

Also, very good to know about pyre zombies. Os-Gabella has a fair number of them now, and others might try death magic summons. I think Destroy Undead and Blinding Light are going to get a fair workout.

[Bobchillingworth]

An effective, if somewhat tedious, way to kill PZ is to simply hit them with units mobile enough to attack one at a time, each killing a zombie and then returning to your main stack, which should be positioned just outside of the PZ explody radius. AI PZ should cap out at 6 strength (assuming Iron weapons, and they generally only get to Bronze) + usually a couple combat promos, so HA or Chariots will work well to counter them. But Destroy Undead is the most cost-effective and painless way, as long as you don't mind giving up the exp you'd obtain from killing them in regular combat.



Regarding the Tower, bear in mind that the AI will *all* declare on you in staggered groups as you get closer and closer to finishing it. Even Friendly AI. Don't neglect your defenses unless you can cash rush it or otherwise complete the Tower before they can mobilize.

[Nicolae Carpathia]

In Single Player having esus as your core faith also gives you much more opportunity to do some undermining of your "allies", by getting to Mask your recon units for Hidden Nationality, and send them in to wreak havoc amongst the unsuspecting dopes. Esus civs can also steal items, which can be very fun.

You don't actually need to have Esus as the state religion for Masked recon units, all you need are the units themselves to worship Esus. One thing I like to do is pump out cheap Scouts or Hunters, and upgrade those that have the right traits to Rangers or Beastmasters.

[Selrahc]

Regarding the Tower, bear in mind that the AI will *all* declare on you in staggered groups as you get closer and closer to finishing it. Even Friendly AI. Don't neglect your defenses unless you can cash rush it or otherwise complete the Tower before they can mobilize.

It's nothing to do with how close you are to finishing it. Once you start it, all AI's not currently in combat or locked into peace with you will declare war. If they sign peace with the people they were at war with then they will declare war on you.

If you want to exploit the AI, bribe them into wars with each other before starting the tower.

You don't actually need to have Esus as the state religion for Masked recon units, all you need are the units themselves to worship Esus. One thing I like to do is pump out cheap Scouts or Hunters, and upgrade those that have the right traits to Rangers or Beastmasters.

Yes, just if you've got Esus as your core faith it is probably widely spread and you're more likely to have those units on hand without special efforts.

[haphazard1]

An effective, if somewhat tedious, way to kill PZ is to simply hit them with units mobile enough to attack one at a time, each killing a zombie and then returning to your main stack, which should be positioned just outside of the PZ explody radius. AI PZ should cap out at 6 strength (assuming Iron weapons, and they generally only get to Bronze) + usually a couple combat promos, so HA or Chariots will work well to counter them. But Destroy Undead is the most cost-effective and painless way, as long as you don't mind giving up the exp you'd obtain from killing them in regular combat.

How large is the explosion radius? I am guessing 1 tile, from what glimpses I have gotten of the Os-G/Perpy fighting. Even with haste most of my units don't have enough speed to move, attack, and move again in hostile territory. I could build horsemen, but they are not very strong and my HA replacement (Fyrd-something?) requires deer which I do not have. Since I could not upgrade them later I haven't actually bothered to build any horse units.

Hmmm, I do have lots of PoL with mobility promotions. Add Haste and they would have enough movement to mop up PZs which have been weakened with Destroy Undead or Maelstrom. Could be a good XP harvesting opportunity. And of course some tiger spam could help if needed. Or just send another mage to finish off any remnants.

Regarding the Tower, bear in mind that the AI will *all* declare on you in staggered groups as you get closer and closer to finishing it. Even Friendly AI. Don't neglect your defenses unless you can cash rush it or otherwise complete the Tower before they can mobilize.

It's nothing to do with how close you are to finishing it. Once you start it, all AI's not currently in combat or locked into peace with you will declare war. If they sign peace with the people they were at war with then they will declare war on you.

If you want to exploit the AI, bribe them into wars with each other before starting the tower.

Definitely useful information to keep in mind. I will need to strengthen my defenses before starting the final tower. I am assuming that building the various prereq towers does not trigger the dogpile?

[Bobchillingworth]

Yeah, the explosion radius is only one tile. Mobility hasted PoL certainly could work well, attack as you described after sending in a bunch of sacrificial tigers first if you need better odds. For best results first use a hasted mobility adept or four to hit the PZ with Rust (Entropy I, my favorite arcane spell in the game)

[haphazard1]

Yeah, the explosion radius is only one tile. Mobility hasted PoL certainly could work well, attack as you described after sending in a bunch of sacrificial tigers first if you need better odds. For best results first use a hasted mobility adept or four to hit the PZ with Rust (Entropy I, my favorite arcane spell in the game)

Sounds promising. I don't have any Entropy mana (yet, anyway), but I have another node soon to be claimed by a border pop that needs to become something useful anyway.

Might need some sacrificial tigers, as Os-G got a Heroes of the Sword event and has a Combat V/Shock PZ leading her stack.

[haphazard1]

Another update, and some more noob questions.

Up to turn 250, and I have just finished exterminating Jonas Endain. Stacks of iron-armed champions, fireball-spamming mages, and tiger-spamming PoLs proved quite effective, with adepts to supply utility magic (haste, treetop defenses, etc.). The Clan was not much of a challenge, as they had suffered serious losses during a war with Tasunke. Jonas was nice enough to pop a prophet and build me the Necronomicon the turn before he perished. Free water mana, plus the shrine income for the world's second most followed religion.

The Sheaim/Balseraph war has continued, with Perpentach barely clinging to life. Hawk recon has kept a close watch on the fighting around Jubilee, and a couple times Perpy has been down to a couple red-lined swords. I don't expect the clowns to last much longer, as Os-Gabella has gone Ashen Veil and is also training adepts in death magic.

Speaking of AV, Os-G has brought Hyborem into the game. My conquest of the clan has resulted in a shared border with the big demon, and I am strongly tempted to consolidate my army for a fast strike to try to remove Hyborem from the world. But I am not entirely sure what to expect. From reading the pedia entry it sure looks like Hyborem is only going to get stronger, thus the temptation to move immediately. But he has champions and iron of his own, plus Hyborem himself. Assuming the big guy is vulnerable to magic of some form (fireballs? maelstrom? blinding light?) I have quite a few mages to blast him.

Could someone give me an idea of how the Infernals work? How tough a target are they? They have only been on the map for maybe 10 turns, and have two cities. They do have room to expand, as Endain had not pushed into a jungled peninsula. I don't like the idea of them growing more powerful. Also, what is their relationship to the civ that brought them in? They have apparently joined Os-G's war against Perpentach, even though the clowns are evil. The Balseraphs do not follow AV, maybe that is it? But if so then Hyborem should be at war with everyone.

Shared war against the Clan with Tasunke finally got him to agree to open borders, so I just this turn managed to meet the final civ: Decius and the Malakim. Poor guy is pinned on a tiny peninsula, and has a lower score than Hyborem. Interesting that this game has no Good civs.

I am also a bit confused by some of the late game units, such as beast masters, crossbows (or flurries since I am the Ljos), etc. Most of them look good on paper but are limited to just a few units for my empire. The enabling techs are also pretty expensive, even for my huge cottage economy. Are these units worth the effort and expense?

Overcouncil vs Undercouncil? Do these have any meaning if you are the only civ running them? I have founded Esus and could grab Empyrean or Order, but am not sure of the value.

Thanks to everyone who has provided advice and encouragement to this noob. I am having a lot of fun, and am starting to get an idea about how at least some of the game mechanics work, and which techs are worth prioritizing, etc. I have certainly played very, very sub-optimally. But I think I am blundering my way to victory, two steps forward and one step back. I am thinking Tower victory, although I have shifted most of my cities to war production and may just see if I can crush everyone on my continent for a domination win. I have enough pop already, and a bit over half the needed land area. My new Clan conquests plus Balseraph and Sheaim lands ought to be close. Might have to smash the Hippus as well, we'll see. But just in case I have one tower done, another about half done, and am setting up nodes for the third. Arcane Lore due next turn, and I can get one free for the Divination tower so archmages are not far away. Have two mages ready with enough XP, so some level 3 spell fun soon.

[Mist]

Assuming the big guy is vulnerable to magic of some form (fireballs? maelstrom? blinding light?)

All of above, Hyborem is essentially a demon, that gives him immunity to death damage and some resistance to fire, but not enough to shrug off most popular collateral forms. Also as you noticed, he has iron weapons, this causes Maelstorm to deal extra damage.

Could someone give me an idea of how the Infernals work?

They start with all the techs the summoner had, so he'll have everything Sheaim had at point of teching IP.
Each of his cities starts with quite a lot of basic infrastructure ( forge, elder council, obsidian gate, mage guild and training yard ) and at size 3.
His cities don't produce or consume food.
His cities don't suffer from unhappiness, but are still affected by health.
Each unit on the map that follows an evil religion ( AV or OO ) is reborn as a mane in random Infernal city after death.
The same applies to demon units.
There's also a mane born for every pop razed from an evil religion city.
Manes can be upgraded to any type of combat unit.
Manes can be added to a city as a population point.

How tough a target are they? They have only been on the map for maybe 10 turns, and have two cities.

Quite soft. If they get time and space to grow they might become problematic, but they usually come out way to late to matter in SP.

Also, what is their relationship to the civ that brought them in?

Non-hostile, no significant ties. They like civs following AV that give them tribute. They are also easy to bribe into war.

Interesting that this game has no Good civs.

Happens, also adopting religions changes alignment.

I am also a bit confused by some of the late game units, such as beast masters, crossbows (or flurries since I am the Ljos), etc. Most of them look good on paper but are limited to just a few units for my empire. The enabling techs are also pretty expensive, even for my huge cottage economy. Are these units worth the effort and expense?

They make for a good core of shock troops in a swarm of T3 units. Some have unique properties ( Beastmasters can tame beasts, Acheron is a beast for example ) or are crazy strong ( Dwarven Druids, Archmages ). But in general, you can live without them.

Overcouncil vs Undercouncil?

Undercouncil has better resolutions.

Do these have any meaning if you are the only civ running them? I have founded Esus and could grab Empyrean or Order, but am not sure of the value.

Undercouncil can be worth it, if only for the free Great Sage it brings. In worst case just offer someone the tech so they can join. No resolutions are voted on until there are at least two members.