Some noob-ish FFH2 questions

[haphazard1]

Very useful info to know, DaveV. Thanks!

Getting even one guardsman unit suddenly becomes a lot more valuable. I suppose I could also build a few scouts as bait and keep them as "escorts" for my top mages.

[haphazard1]

Very small update, only 5 turns worth. Takes quite a while to play each with the size of my empire, plus careful handling for a war.

Declared on the Infernals and wiped them out, took 3 turns. Used two turns to set up after finishing off the Clan, using disciples to get the captured cities out of anarchy and concentrating my forces for the attack. Also planted two more cities of my own to use extra space -- Jonas Endain had a lot of culture in his core cities and never filled in the border areas to use the extra tiles, so I was able to plant a couple of what will eventually be decent fillers.

Assuming the game lasts that long, of course. Towers of Alteration and Divination are under construction in my second- and third-best hammer cities. The best just completed City of a Thousand Slums to grab a bunch more usable tiles, and is working on Pillar of Chains for more hammers. It will be building the Tower of Mastery and needs the preparation. Size 26 and +20 food per turn, not something I'm used to seeing from regular Civ IV. Pass Through the Ether done next turn, and I will fit the Nexus in somewhere -- should be incredibly useful for a civ as spread out as mine.

I did make a mistake while finishing off Hyborem, though. I should have done more careful recon. Tasunke had moved a worker up to chop some jungle on the Infernal border and he got caught in my Maelstrom attacks. Instant war with the Hippus, with no notification from the game at all. No announcement, nothing -- I did not even realize it until next turn when I started getting "Hippus spotted near xyz" warnings and a couple workers were stolen. Would have been nice to at least have an announcement of the event when it happened.

Anyway, this will be a bit of a hassle while I move units into position. Might even lose a city or two if Tasunke gets his act together -- he wasn't really prepared for a war just now. But I will start adding the Hippus lands to my own. Might even reach domination before finishing the Tower of Mastery.

The Infernals put up a decent fight, given what they had after being in the game all of 15 turns or so. Needing to kill Hyborem twice was a bit of a pain, and his one Imp made good use of Rust to hammer my iron champion stack. It wasn't enough to save him against a dozen mages spamming Maelstrom and Fireballs, a dozen PoL spamming tigers, 20 or so champions, adepts for Haste and Enchanted Blade (should have cast it before the Rust, not sure if that would have made a difference?). I've been amazed how quickly a war can go with mobility promotions and mass Haste, and this is a slow mover stack. Mounted units would be even nastier. Too bad for Tasunke that my lands are heavily forested and mostly lack roads.

This game has been a great learning experience, and I appreciate all the helpful info and advice from everyone who has commented. Any suggestions on what civ to try next? Still a bit more wrapping up to do, but hopefully I can manage that in just one or two more play sessions.

[Bobchillingworth]

Would have been nice to at least have an announcement of the event when it happened.

The game does sometimes warn you that casting a certain spell may mean war with one of the civs that would be adversely impacted. I guess it doesn't always, though.



Try out the Infernals next! They're my favorite civ, it's really cathartic to just stomp around with nigh-invulnerable demon stacks, burning cities and merging manes into your capital to create a size 200 city just because you can

[haphazard1]

The game does sometimes warn you that casting a certain spell may mean war with one of the civs that would be adversely impacted. I guess it doesn't always, though.

I am guessing it is related to the range 2 on the Maelstrom. I wonder if it might also have been related to the Hippus unit that was hit being a worker -- they can't actually take any damage, so maybe something that would normally be checked doesn't happen?

Try out the Infernals next! They're my favorite civ, it's really cathartic to just stomp around with nigh-invulnerable demon stacks, burning cities and merging manes into your capital to create a size 200 city just because you can

This really seems to depend on what you have built before you summon the Infernals. In this case I had a huge, powerful empire I had spent a lot of time building up. So there was no impulse to even go for AV, especially with elves and FoL. But with the right situation switching to Infernals seems like it would be a lot of fun.

[Nicolae Carpathia]

The classic Infernal summoning strategy is Hannah of the Lanun. Expand 2-4 cities, tech off coves and 2/0/3 foasts, go Ancient Chants, Mysticism, work a Priest to pop out a GProphet, KotE, Philo, Ashen Veil, and bulb most of Infernal Pact. If you're greedy, tech Crafting/Mining or Education so that Hyborem will actually have some decent tiles work. Otherwise, summon a stack of Iron Champions while your enemies have little more than bronze axes (that can be rusted away) and disembowel a few civs.

[Bobchillingworth]

The classic Infernal summoning strategy is Hannah of the Lanun. Expand 2-4 cities, tech off coves and 2/0/3 foasts, go Ancient Chants, Mysticism, work a Priest to pop out a GProphet, KotE, Philo, Ashen Veil, and bulb most of Infernal Pact. If you're greedy, tech Crafting/Mining or Education so that Hyborem will actually have some decent tiles work. Otherwise, summon a stack of Iron Champions while your enemies have little more than bronze axes (that can be rusted away) and disembowel a few civs.

Don't research mining until you use your bulb, though- the prophet will research Earthmother instead of Infernal Pact if you do.


As Hyborem, all you really need aside from the initial units are Diseased Corpses and Ritualists; the Ritualists can heal the Corpses which will get Iron from your palace, leaving them at a very respectable 8 strength for only 60 hammers each. Rust Imps help a lot too, and you start with both Entropy Mana and free Mage Guilds in all your cities. Using the Grimoire to grab Malevolent Designs for Beasts of Agares (who do not put your cities in revolt or eat your demonic population) and Eidolon will provide you with access to two tough T4 units, if Corpses & Hyborem alone aren't cutting it.


While Hannah is the undisputed queen of obtaining Hyborem quickly, if you are more interested as empire-building instead of rushing as the Infernals, consider using one of the Calabim or Sheaim leaders. Calabim Vampires always provide a mane each upon death, as do Sheaim adepts (the AI will always promote them to Death I using the palace mana as soon as you abandon control over the civ), meaning that you can set your former civ up as a prime mane buffet.

[Ellimist]

Declared on the Infernals and wiped them out, took 3 turns.

That sounds quite similar to what happened in FFHpbem-3.

[Tasunke]

I dunno Bob ... I think its a tie between Hannah and Cardith Lorda when it comes to summoning Hyborem.

(depending on map settings of course)

[Nicolae Carpathia]

I always thought Cardith was weaker at it because he won't be FIN until ~T70, and he'll be teching off cottages (in at education) instead of coves (in at fishing). Instead, he's better at summoning the Mercurians, as getting a permanent alliance as the Kurios is incredibly strong as it bypasses their single weakness.

[Bobchillingworth]

Cardith can in no way compete with Hannah for fastest Hyborem rusher (unless you are on a map with no navigable water). Cardith simply has nothing comparable to the raw commerce output of Pirate Ports (plus being able to work basic tiles for 2 food + 3 commerce and also Pearls), in the timeframe required to rush a bare-bones Hyborem. Plus he has a more difficult time defending- Hannah's improvements for a correctly-managed Hyborem rush will be entirely coastal, and thus far less likely to get pillaged, and Hannah should have more cities as well, meaning more towns which can pump meatshield warriors.


On a map with no water, I'm still not seeing Cardith as a good choice, since he lacks Financial. Kandros with some starting wine resources is surely superior. Or Rohanna, if the happy cap is an issue with the Khazad.