The Orc Clan: Following the Princess Rule

[Ravus Sol]

Last worrisome issue... Has Mr Yellow always had open borders with Mackoti?

Just to double check, what's the ruling on checking back on my saves for when Mr Yellow and Mackoti had open borders? I'm pretty sure it's a no but I can't remember.

I will check backlog of pictures first I'm pretty sure they didn't have open borders as I thought Mackoti would have to go through the neutral lands. So now, while trying to figure out what to say when talking to them, I also have to worry that they have already come to some agreement together...

[Ravus Sol]

*grumble grumble*

Has Mr Yellow gotten smarter as the game closes or has he just been made more cynical by all the backstabbing that's happened in this dramatic conclusion?

I asked if he was free. The instance I open with me "play from weakness" stance he says he is busy today and will answer tomorrow. I'm guess he's typing up a message to Mist. Thankfully I didn't have a chance to mention open Borders otherwise Mist would know what's up. He will probably suspect it anyway.

I'm guessing, with Mist backing, this is just going to solidify the Hippus hitting me when Krill is dealt with.

[Ravus Sol]

Well I knew it was a long shot anyway.

Time for longshot #2 talking to the guy you've smeared and organised a dogpile against

[Ellimist]

Just to double check, what's the ruling on checking back on my saves for when Mr Yellow and Mackoti had open borders? I'm pretty sure it's a no but I can't remember.

I don't think there are any rules against checking previous saves for information. (Obviously you can't move units differently and get different information.)

[T-hawk]

Yeah, looking back at old saves is acceptable. The thinking goes that you could write down the entire game state on every single turn. So looking at old saves doesn't do anything you couldn't already do. Yes, of course don't move units or do anything else to gain information.

[Ichabod]

Poor Krill...

[Ravus Sol]

[SIZE="6"]Exit Krill![/SIZE]

This is a public service announcement.

We regret to inform about the passing of a great evil. Poor Hyborem ceased to be accidentally stampeded to death by a runaway Hippus cavalry during the Bannor T140 Crusade military maneuvers.

Farewell Krill. We hardly knew ya

Gahhhh grumble scumble gramble fluff.

Right. So.

I called it. Didn't help, but I called it.

So what now?

Poor Krill...

Help me Mercurian Ichabod! You're my only hope!

Anyway If someone hasn't done it yet tell Krill that there was someone trying to ride to the rescue. It's just that Orcs don't do as well on the epic timing as Wizards like Gandalf. Wizards are never late.

I've had the next turn, my god was it fiddly. I really hate the prompts for the cities Prompting me on what i'd like to build for 7 cities when I couldn't pick SoK untill after i'd changed relgion. Annoying.
After I'd fiddled around I was actually doing worse economically. Turns out that the boost from being in Runes of Kilmorph was actually less then all the gold from Merchant specialists that I could run while in Sacrifice the weak. So as soon as this Gate is built and the Grimore built I'm swapping back pronto. At least a few more Rune Priests will be good to spread around for money. Remember how I said some fiddling had tech ETA down to 8-9 turns? Well it's back up to 10 turns while in runes. Annoying stuff. And that's with cutting corners. Settling every Ritualist possible to drag down the Unit upkeep and even deleting 5 un-Prophecy Marked Warriors.

I have 4 hawks flying around. No Vampires anywhere. The Wolf Rider bumped into a few Horse Archers on Mr Yellows Borders. No war declaration but he scarpered into the nearby Barbarian city just in case.

Spying on the Vampire lands shows Mackoti has expanded out into new lands, claiming another mana node that has become an Entropy node. Looks like he is building the Tower of Necormancy. Strong Spectres. Strong counts in a battle against Diesiesed corpses unlike base death mana nodes.

Talks with Mist show he might be wanting to throw in the towel. Could be a trap. He's noticed that he is #2 in GNP and STILL BELOW half of the Vampires GNP. But that's because everyone optioned out of the war and Mackoti is in a third golden age.

Still no reply from Mr Yellow after he asked for a day to think. Have to assume an attack is coming from that side so some basic Reinforcements getting shuffled in that Direction.

The Speed really makes it hard to keep what the Empire is doing in your mind. Especially when it is so big.

[Ravus Sol]

So Mr Yellow finally got back to me.

Demanded 750 gold for a 20 turn NAP

Even if I went 100% gold i only get something like 30 gold I forget how much exactly. But not enough that I could even MAKE 750 in 20 turns. Never mind spend it on a NAP. Is Mr Yellow even paying attention? I thought It was a bargaining aid. Start high kind of thing. But as soon as I actually got through to him that I'd crashed my economy facing the vampires and all I could offer was production, Military and political aid he ran off to re-talk things over with Mist.

*sigh*

Might just be easier to cut out the middle man and negotiate with Mist directly.

[Selrahc]

Might just be easier to cut out the middle man and negotiate with Mist directly.

Neither of them update their thread enough.. do you know what the deal is with them? Is Mr Yellow just flat out working for Mist? Why?

[Ravus Sol]

[SIZE="6"]Charging into Diplomacy, A Mr Yellow and Ravus Negotiation[/SIZE]

[SIZE="4"]The "I'm weak and un-threatening how about we discuss what I want" Opening[/SIZE]

Ravus: Hello Hello, got a minute?

Mr Yellow: i do, what is it?

Ravus: PBEMVIII stuff.
Our last set of exchanges wasn't exactly the best but at this point I'm out of options.
The Vampires are pretty much knocking on my door and Mist let slip that Krill is nearly dead. About the same time our 10 turn enforced peace ends.
Basically this is me asking what I can offer to get a NAP out of you. If just one more person joins in with the Vampires i'm going fold like a bad date :/

Mr Yellow: i am pretty busy today though, i'll have to think more about this tomorrow

Ravus: With the slow turn speed tomrrow won't make that much difference I don't think
till tomorrow then

This is the opening Attempt I made when Krill was still alive. No go.

[SIZE="4"]The "Give me what I want, What do you mean you don't have what I want?" attempt at bartering[/SIZE]

Ravus: Sorry I didn't realize I was sighed in on my phone. Just out for lunch. Anything important?

Mr Yellow: regarding the NAP you asked about 3 days ago
ive got to ask you; what do i really gain from a NAP with you at this stage?

Ravus: Well that IS important. Just won't be eloquent on here
In short. Name your price. Im over a barrel. Vampires at the gates. If you attack I fold

Mr Yellow: allright

Ravus: You claim the west. Mackoti claims the east. He'd be powerful enough then to win. in 10 turns I can counter attack. But only if my flank is secure.
,
As to definate things I can offer... Settlers, priests, map military aid etc.
Food is here. So just think about it.

Mr Yellow: im still angry over how you shattered the dogpile turns earlier, that was the moment we could have made some difference. The army made to take on vampires had to be wasted on demons and i need those losses quickly replaced. 755 gold is what i'm looking for. For that you get a 20 turn NAP and i'll focus my hordes elsewhere.
and no, i dont really need much food at this stage

Ravus: I meant food as in lunch brb

Mr Yellow: oh
but yeah, the only thing i really need now is gold

Ravus: Id accept that instantly. If I had the money. I crashed my economy fighting the vampires solo. Burned all my savings limping to hunting to spy. I currently have 30 to 40 in the bank and make 25 gpt. And that is with switching to runes. I can send you a screen shot of my financial screen if you want. So it would take 30 turns to raise the money for a 20 turn nap. I could offer you a rune priest to create a temple of kilmorph in every city along with some money... But I don't have the kind of money you need while vampires are attacking.I have production warren power. :-)

Mr Yellow: allright, need to think about this

This was Mr Yellow's attempt at agressive negotiating. With Krill gone and me not about to admit I opened communications to grab krill away from Mr Yellow I continued the discussion hoping to at least get a NAP out of this.

Why he thought I had this much money I don't know, and Mr Yellows desire to have discussions over chat meant I was doing this at a restaurant with a phone. I think I did alright getting my point across without, what did you guys call it, Sulla-esq.. levels of Condemnation?

[SIZE="4"]The "lose interest" final act... or is it?[/SIZE]

Mr Yellow: hey ravus

Ravus: Hey i'm here

Mr Yellow: While i have more use of gold at this point, there is certainly need of more cities around; so instead of 755 gold, how about 4 settlers?

Ravus: 4 Settlers, yes I can do that, I have two coming out soon and can switch around things to pop out some more, I can give them all to you, Do you know where you want them or do you want a map trade thrown in so you can look around a bit?

Mr Yellow: im pretty sure where i want them to be, i'll give you the coordinates later on

Ravus: Do you have enough units to protect them once they get passed over to you?
Okay so 4 settlers, delivered protected to 4 sites to be later named for a 20 turn NAP

Mr Yellow: i can get a few HA around to escort when close enough
so yes, 4 settlers and you have a 20 turn NAP

Ravus: Perfect. If I can't turn this around with a protected West flank in 20 turns I deserve to die.
Can I ask for a basic heads up If the Vampires try to pass through your land? Especially if it's when i'm trying to deliver settlers to you. I don't want to be held responsible If Mackoti Snipes them.

Mr Yellow: that i can do, i ahvent seen any vampires nearby wither

Ravus: Yeah, That's what worries me, I can't spot them with hawks either.

Mr Yellow: allright, i'll be off now. Bye

Ravus: Till next time

Now don't get me wrong. I'm happy to have a NAP. But this just seems wrong. would other people equate 750 gold to 4 settlers? To none expansive-warren nations 4 settlers could be a lot but that's cheap as chips to me. If Mr Yellow had wanted he could have negotiated for 6 at least and priests dropping temples of kilmorph everywhere.

I could put it down to lack of diplomatic skill but I'm worried now that this NAP is a red-herring and Mr Yellow is hoping I move my units back EAST to NAP-stab me...

I'll follow through with the settlers. It's cheap as anything to pump them out. But i'll keep some units in the West just in case. I did offer a map which i'm amused Mr Yellow turned down. It's going to be very awkward if Mr Yellow asks for cities sites in places i've already snagged out from under him...