[PLAYERS STAY OUT!] Lurker Thread - PB5 Starts A Day Late & Dollar Short

[Serdoa]

I was going to post this in scooters thread, but while typing I realized that this would maybe alter the game by changing his decisions. So I'll instead post it here

So you plan to tech

Myst -> Medi -> PH -> Poly -> Masonry -> Mono

instead of

Myst -> Poly -> Masonry (-> Mono)

just so that you can invest 100 hammers (150 with IND-bonus) into Oracle to get a 25% bonus for Pyramids? Those 100 hammers are even without OR and Forge 250 hammers or 50% of the Pyramids. The bonus from OR and Forge on the 500 hammers will only be 33 hammers (you'll need a total of 167 instead of 200 raw hammers). Doesn't seem worth it for me.

That shall not be understood as that I don't think it would be strong to get MC + Pyramids. Quite the opposite. But he has several opponents which could snag the wonder from him (and he knows it) + he does not know if he'll be able to use those Triremes and he is far away from needing forges (you'll need a certain amount of hammers per turn in a city to make a forge worthwhile imo). Getting Pyramids on the other hand could be extremely strong, depending on his land. I'm not sure if risking losing it (and teching the whole early religious tree as well) is really the smart move here.

[plako]

It seems Cyneheard is also getting trouble with early warriors and 20T peace wouldn't have helped him. These random maps with normal speed really calls for way more cautious play than has become the standard in RB.

Naturally one can take huge risks at any era. However I think here the pure luck factor i.e. stumbling your warrior to right place at the right time combined with the potentially very big reward without any costs makes this bad for the games that are supposed to last for months. So either the culture of gambiting should change (not very likely ) or we find something that forces people to defend properly during the early turns.

So I suggest everyone starts with warrior and scout. Warrior must be held inside capital until T20-40. This way you've something to scout your surroundings and find the neighbors that can't totally surprise you and it is more up to your actions, if you end up screwing things up or not.

[SevenSpirits]

So I suggest everyone starts with warrior and scout. Warrior must be held inside capital until T20-40. This way you've something to scout your surroundings and find the neighbors that can't totally surprise you and it is more up to your actions, if you end up screwing things up or not.

I will say again - why not just start everyone with only a scout? Then you don't need any special rules.

[plako]

I will say again - why not just start everyone with only a scout? Then you don't need any special rules.

Someone opening with warrior can still ruin average Joe's day. Well granted there is a cost of building warrior 1st included so this 2nd best option.

[Kyan]

Why not start everyone with a 'held' warrior? This of course assumes that the capital won't move but then you could always just set a rule to enforce the holding without an ingame mechanic.

i.e. your starting warrior must move directly to your capital and fortify there. If you wanted, you could set a turn limit (turn 50) for this restriction to end.

You could also give them a scout if you wanted (and to make the early turns less boring).

[Injera]

It is more and more clear that Plako's early departure was a gigantic boon for me. Instead of a strong rival on my immediate border, I have a large backlines empire ready and waiting for me. Instead of early skirmishes with Plako, I can set up a judicious sentry net and expand in peace.

This is the problem. It seems to me that "everyone starts with a scout" fixes it pretty well, or at least gives everyone a fighting chance if they watch demos. If you see someone is going warrior first you have time to react.

[plako]

Azza - You really don't need Monument on that city.

Viridian City founded.

[SevenSpirits]

Yup. And in fact he doesn't need that city at all (yet)! He'd be much better off growing his capital to size 2 first. He's got 2 workers with nothing of value to do, a second city with nothing of value to do, and for this he paid all the forests at his capital.

[Serdoa]

Desert hill above copper seems to be a good spot. Copper, Gold and able to take the 5-food-tile from the cap. Which in turn could instead use floodplains farms (or cottages). Does he really instead farm the grassland 1SE of this cap? Or is he building a road and I just memorized the animation wrong?

[SevenSpirits]

It looks like he's farming to me. Roads use shovels.