[SPOILERS - PBEM29] spacetyrantxenu - Mao of Babylon

[spacetyrantxenu]

T114 - Gunpowder is in. After evaluating my options, none of which look good from this far behind, I'm going to go with Theology at break even research (1T), will tech Alphabet while saving as much cash as possible, so that I can run 100% research on Paper two turns from now to make up a few beakers. I may leave Paper just a bit short so I can run 100% on the second turn with the double prerequisite bonus. That can overflow into something more expensive, like Printing Press for the economic bonus, then onto RP to Rifling. All of that is a rather long haul but I don't see a much better option at this point. At breakeven research that will take from now:

Theology - 1T
Alphabet - 1T
Paper - 1T (but will make it 2T for overflow)
Printing Press - 4T (probably 3 with Paper's overflow)
Replaceable Parts - 5T
Rifling - 7T

This plan completely negelcts my navy (I can build...triremes!) Also, I could really use a harbour in Michele Bachman, that would add 6 gpt, probably would be useful other places too, but we have this war thing to contend with...we probably don't have a lot of time for economic diversion. On the naval tech side, I could go for optics but caravels will be just as useless against galleons as triremes, once Sian goes for Astronomy, so I'm not really worried on the naval side of things for now. I have limited options so I'm going to opt for Rifling and hope that I field a competitive army and can survive naval attacks.

One option that would be great if I can do it while in a GA would be to tech Philo (2T) + Nationalism (5T) and start drafting like crazy. I don't have Sian's production capability but I have more population and plenty of happiness, plus we've built up 13 barracks and courthouses for a bit of synergy with nationhood. I'll hate to lose the bureaucracy bonuses at Newt, but we won't get Oxford anytime soon, needing 5 universities. I'm just not sure when we'll have time to build those as we need so many units right now. So I'm probably foolishly delaying that part of the tech tree a while longer. If I can do a GA, switching to NH + Theocracy makes sense, HR is obvious since there's no drawback vs. despotism, but I wonder about switching into Mercantilism. That would be a rather selfish, non-alliance move, but I am running quite a few internal trade routes anyway, and it's basically only Dazed making a killing off trade routes anyway. I'm -16, Slowcheetah is -5, and Dazed is +21 on TRs. So really only Dazed will be hurt. I'll think about it...I'm not convinced Dazed is going to help in the war anyway. Food for thought.

OK, as for playing the turn....a chop came in at Mitt Romney, so we'll have enough overflow this turn to finish a pike this turn and next turn. That should help discourage any ventures Sian may have in mind at Jon Huntsman. After that, we'll build more units of some description. I'm throwing up a castle at Huntsman and in Newt, at Huntsman for defense and for the extra trade route at Newt. It will take 2 turns for Newt where I could otherwise be building units, which is probably bad, but it's so cheap with Protective and the extra trade route will be worth 4 or 5 gpt, so will pay off quickly in a bureaucracy capital with +95% science modifiers in place.

A look at the northern front:

...I got a bit distracted with this update while watching the Kansas-Kentucky game, I hope I didn't do anything to weedy playing my turn during commercials, but there is one update worth noting:



Buckle up! We'll see if my islands are secure enough, but who could resist a five worker steal? It may be smarter to delete them now while I can, but I'm going to try to walk them back to my land. I can't cover them with anything more than the C2 knight I took them with, but Sian doesn't have anything visible that can dislodge the knight unless he's willing to risk having his city burned on a bad pair of rolls. Now, he has Engineering so there are probably units in the fog on zone defense. But hopefully he's been sloppy and sent the house at Slowcheetah and I get to keep five workers. That would be nice

In any case, this war had to happen sometime and I'm never really going to be ready to face the juggernaut. Maybe he'll throw units at my front cities and waste a lot of hammers....except he can't get to me through Dazed's culture (no OBs) and Slowcheetah won't let him through Too Much Civ without a fight. I'm really only worried about my island cities, Gary Johnson specifically. But once he gets Astronomy he can get after my core, too, if he bypasses Slowcheetah's island cities to my north. That wouldn't be tactically sound, though, so I doubt he tries that. But we'll see what happens. I went ahead and stole another worker west of Gary Johnson, since my knight can't be counter-attacked.

More info!

[spacetyrantxenu]

Ninja post, I forgot to add this photo of the current battle field:

[spacetyrantxenu]

Diplo to Slowcheetah and Dazed:

Fellow Dictators,

War! Dazed, is there any chance you could just go ahead and declare war on Sian? I captured 5 workers from him this turn in a nice ninja attack (thanks for the heads up), and I'd be willing to give you some of them if you can go ahead and help Slowcheetah and me make him really nervous. If you can't declare war on him yet (and the NAP you two hold is mostly worthless anyway considering the helpful intelligence you provided about the workers), please consider gifting units for me to throw into the mixer on your behalf. I've horribly violated our no scout clause by moving a bit of a stack into Function, they won't be there long. I chose to leave them in the city instead of on the staging tile you previously suggested so that I will have a chance to cover the knight/5 workers if I need to, or in case Sian blocks off the hill 1W of Mehmed. I'll still be able to get into his culture as the stack is positioned. If he reinforces his city and makes attack prospects doubtful you may see my units crossing back across your land soon, as I don't have the catapults immediately on hand that would be necessary to take a well fortified hill city at 40% culture (unless he does something really stupid, that is).

I expect he has units in the fog and I may regret not deleting the workers, but they were too tasty to resist. He really should have covered them on his border.

Anyway, one other idea, Dazed - you're sitting on a nice pile of gold, which I assume you're about to put to good use. I'm working on a Rifling beeline and would be about 19 turns away at break even from getting there. That's way too long to be useful in our present conflict. Are either you or Slowcheetah any closer? Perhaps this would be a good time for some of us to pool gold and gift whoever is closest to teching Rifling, because although Sian's hammer output is impressive, he doesn't have rifles yet either and would surely not want to face them in the field of battle. I expect that whoever received the funding could pay the others back with pillage/city capture gold. Just throwing out an idea -- I really hope one of you is closer to rilfles than I am. If you are I'd be glad to support the fundraising effort to put nasty guns across the field from Sian's armies. Considering Slowcheetah is already in nationhood that could be very useful indeed. But Dazed, if we could get you to Rifling and nationhood, with your endless number of cities you could go on drafting forever and hardly notice. Surely you could make Sian notice, though. But that would only really be useful if you could tech it quickly and were at war with him.

Enough for now, sorry for holding the save tonight. I was watching the basketball game, not that I wasn't eliminated from my bracket challenge weeks ago.....

Hail Ronald Reagan!

Xenu,
Tyrant
Republican party

[spacetyrantxenu]

[COLOR="Cyan"]Hey all,

I don't have long (work meeting in 2 minutes) but I wanted to respond promptly.

1) I will not break a NAP. Sian and I signed a NAP a long time ago and I regret it, but I won't explicitly break it. We never agreed I wouldnt give his enemies OB or gift them units. Technicality? Yes. But still it is a matter of principle for me.

2) I'm dissapointed that you moved your units into my city, Xenu. The whole point was that the staging tile I suggested made it impossible for Sian to see them there. In the city, however, he has complete visibility because of the peak that is under his control.. I understand the temptation to get those workers, but you have telegraphed your moves, unfortunately and I fully expect to see reinforcements in Mehmed after Sian's next turn.

3) Pooling gold is a possibility, though the repayment plan would need to be worked out to make it helpful to the person(s) who lose the ability to tech for a number of turns.

Dazed
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[spacetyrantxenu]

[COLOR="DeepSkyBlue"]Hey Guys,

Dazed I wouldn't expect you to break an NAP it's signed and now we have to work around it. If he does reinforce Mehmed,he probably has a stack of knights I observed from the coast in the fog around there (around 6 or so at the time), you may want to keep pushing in the jungle area because it will free me up to push the tundra somewhat.

Thoughts on pooling gold for rifles, Sian already has the capability to research Military science, for grenadiers the counter to rifles. In addition I can't afford to research more land troops currently, Sian just researched compass and is presumably going up to astro to unlock frigates (he already has chemistry). This would totally screw me over, considering I'm pretty much relying on collateral to even up Sian's technology edge. Collateral I can't kill would make my demise swift, so I am currently following the path for frigates, hopefully he won't get too many in the water before I manage to get to tech parity. I also don't earn very much gold anyway even at 0% research.

Additionally, Sian has EP visibility on my cities, I don't know whether that'd allow him to see any units you guys want to garrison there, but it's something to keep in mind.

slowcheetah
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[spacetyrantxenu]

[COLOR="Magenta"]@Dazed,

re: 1. - I can live with that, I don't expect anyone to break a deal I just wish we had never signed them :P

re: 2. - I knew he'd see the units, but I previously explained why I did it. If he blocked the hill west of the city I wouldn't be able to approach the city next turn. It's likely not to fall without collateral anyway, which I do not have in close enough proximity to the city.

re: 3. - Regarding repayment, if we don't get pillage/capture money coming in I don't see how anyone will repay anyone else before the game is effectively over. It's probably time to consider that if we don't work together effectively, the game is over. If we all worry about someone else gaining more than I do in our deals, we're probably not doing all we can to reign in Sian. And if we aren't working together, we're certainly all going to lose together. This isn't to say I want to vassalize to someone with a better shot to win, but we need to think of what we can all bring to this effort and throw all resources into it. Preventing Sian from winning (and thus you from losing) should be enough of a return on your investment for now. If we don't have that kind of committment, this is a lost cause anyway.

@Slowcheetah,

Since Sian is ahead and can counter anything we can tech, what makes the most sense? Us getting cannons and throwing masses of bodies behind them? Who is closest to Steel? I assume that Slowcheetah needs to be worried about building a navy or it won't matter. Since I can't be boated as easily, I could build cannons if I teched to Steel, but I'd have to run through Chemistry first.

-Xenu
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[spacetyrantxenu]

[COLOR="DeepSkyBlue"]Xenu, I'd say that cannons probably are our best bet, and from the looks of things you are probably the closest to steel. Maybe cannons guarded by pikemen for the meantime? Should protect them from Sian's knights/currs, if Dazed works on going towards rifling ( I believe he is the closest), then cannons and rifles should be able to march into cavalry without taking too much damage. In the meantime I've got a fair few Hwachas up in TMC they were there for defense but if an assault is taking place I can gift them over?

slowcheetah
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[spacetyrantxenu]

[COLOR="Magenta"]OK, I can revise my plans and head toward cannons. I don't know if my little stack can be called an invasion force, most of my stuff is up in the north of my land on the Tundra front since that's the closest direct opening Sian has to my land (knights, pikes, etc). To move them down this way would leave me a bit exposed up there, especially since he can move easily through the neutral land where your poor departed silver city was. If you don't need all the hwachas for defense feel free to send them up toward Dazed's Function city, if he doesn't mind me inviting more foreigners into his land. Oh wait, you'd have to move them into my land to gift them to me, so maybe it will take a few turns to shuffle around. Anyway, whatever you can spare in terms of collateral will be helpful once Sian stuffs Mehmed with units.

-Xenu[/COLOR]

[spacetyrantxenu]

[COLOR="Cyan"]Hmm if you have got a load of troops down in the tundra we could make an attack down there? I have quite a few pikes and maces and am currently rebuiding my collateral, in addition I destroyed a pretty large stack of his in the tundra two turns ago so he has been weakened. Sian doesn't seem to have very many catapults himself so if we can get them to cities they may do some damage.

slowcheetah[/COLOR]

[spacetyrantxenu]

[COLOR="Magenta"]I'll check when I get the save back to see what I have, or maybe I have a screen shot from last turn. It isn't as much as I'd like, four or five knights, a few pikes on the way, and then several longbows. I took a preliminary defensive position there since that's what Protective is good at. I'm working on muskets now in a few places, and more knights I think. I haven't got to the stage where I whip away most of my population, that will come if I can get into Theocracy soon, hopefully. I'm trying to generate a great person for a golden age, maybe soon.

Anyway, I can certainly send up the units I have, though it's likely Sian will see them. He has a pair of units 2 tiles west of my chariot, or at least he did last turn. They were fairly beat up if I remember correctly, so it seems you've had some knowledge of them!

-Xenu[/COLOR]