[SPOILERS] Four Score & Seven Dynasties Ago: Pindicator plays Lincoln of China

[pindicator]

Went for a run since it's so damn nice outside. And I pondered my military question above. Decided that no matter how nice that city is, if I have a shot to burn Moogle's capital I need to take it. So that's the plan.

Did a little logistics, saw what I could put together. Bottom line: 10 chariots will double move his capital. Stage on turn 110. Double moving turns 111 & 112.


Then there's this in the diplo thread:

@pindicator - I've pondered how to respond to this. I feel we have pretty good relations considering the game settings. I've tried to help you meet other civs, and we've both acted honorably during that process. You also may have seen in the thread that I tried to negotiate peaceful border deals with Rome and Mali and kept my end of the deal. So that said, the last thing I want to do is some sort of in-your-face land grab and ask forgiveness later.

On the other hand, we have each others demographics, so we know you're in a very strong position. I don't know what your combat history has been, but I know you have a good military and lots of land to develop. Nothing wrong with that, and I've tried to do much the same. Still, while I don't know how far your border city with me is to your capital, I know it's pretty close to mine. Calling all the land between our cities off limits would remove city plants as close as five tiles to my capital.

Ultimately then what I plan to do is this: I'm going to plant a coastal city. It won't have any overlap with your border city. I'm also going to plant another city quite a bit further north. I'd have not thought that city would impact you, but your land covers a lot of area I hope you won't take either of these as aggressive plants. On my end I'll keep the land in line between our current border cities open. I think this should pretty much set our border. Of course I don't exactly how far north and east your land goes, and just how the final China/Mali/Egypt/Lewwyn(?) border will look. In any case, the two cities mentioned above are the only things I'll be in position to plant in your direction for quite a while.

I look forward to any reply.

I've already used this saying, but Pot, meet Kettle. Sunrise and I are the top 2 positions demographically. Maybe we're 1A & 1B - I won't know how good Ichabod is until I get graphs on him. Then there's also Lord Parkin who has a ton of good land, but probably is a bit behind right now just because of all the warmongering going on in the north.

The thing is, I don't want a bad border with sunrise. I want a good relationship with him while I expand east. Attack west would be suicide. It's a narrow border, far easier to defend. And I'd be going up against Egypt in the Ancient Age on flat terrain. So much better to attack on a wide border against a civ that may have shown me how to decapitate it's capital. We'll see.

I'm trying to think how to respond. He didn't plant the city in a bad place for me: it's 5 tiles west, 2 tiles north of Thwomp. So I'm not upset at him. But how do I want to present things in the diplo thread?

Edit: sunrise is going for Construction next. 4 turns away.

[Bigger]

According to the diplomacy screen you posted, Sunrise is furious with you! I wouldn't trust him

[pindicator]

According to the diplomacy screen you posted, Sunrise is furious with you! I wouldn't trust him

Don't worry, it goes both ways

[AutomatedTeller]

pindicator - that's a great post, about your war plans.

Stuff like this is why I like coming to RB, cause people are very good at sharing their plans - double move, with line of sight rules and combat roading, with the distraction... that's war planning.

[pindicator]

So I'm sure you've read my diplo thread response to sunrise. (If not, here's you cue! Read it before going further!) Like I said before, I've got nothing about his settling where he did. But the dude just passed me in crop yield and some lines are sacred

No, seriously, I responded like I did for 3 reasons:

• I'm sick of his blustering about how everyone else has good demos. Most of that post may have been bluster but that bit I said about him sounding as bad as LP was legit. The guy has the best start in the game as far as I can tell. Top 3 at least. He's top GNP when he puts his research on and now he's top food too. Because of this, I don't want him to feel he has a safe border. Not without him working for it.
  
  
• A ruse against Moogle. Let him think my border is heating up with sunrise and that my plans aren't against him.
  
  
• Most of all, just for shits and giggles. Seriously. I was going to say "oh, that's okay, I'm cool with that city spot anyway" but what fun is that?

Now, could this be a horrible idea? You bet. I might have a dozen War Chariots outside Thwomp soon. Moogle might decide that now's a good time to attack. I'm potentially making enemies on all sides. A hundred other things.

But is it fun? You bet your ass it is.

[Ceiliazul]

But is it fun? You bet your ass it is.

Maybe there are some better technicians on this site. (not many.) Maybe there are some more entertaining players. (not many.) But you win the all-around medal. Loving it.

[pindicator]

Maybe there are some better technicians on this site. (not many.) Maybe there are some more entertaining players. (not many.) But you win the all-around medal. Loving it.

Glad I've found my niche here at RB

pindicator - that's a great post, about your war plans.

Stuff like this is why I like coming to RB, cause people are very good at sharing their plans - double move, with line of sight rules and combat roading, with the distraction... that's war planning.

You know what this kind of post gets you, AT?

More war plans!

:2dance:

Here's my plan for logistics to get the chariots in place. Everything's moving on roads, which simplifies stuff, but the basic idea is that a chariot has to start the turn inside each turn's cut-off line in order to get to the staging tile in time. And because I have a funny shaped empire, it may be a little odd to tell which side of the line is "inside" So I put the number on the "inside" to try to help. Typically stuff is moving counter-clockwise. So all units participating in the attack have to start turn 107 "inside" the red line to get there in time. Inside the grey-blue line on turn 110. You get the idea.



Now I know how long I have to produce chariots in each city. Right now I have 5 chariots. 2 are at Angry Sun, already where they need to be. 1 is in Bob-Omb, but he doesn't need to move for a while. 1 chariot is south of Thwomp. And the 5th is my sentry chariot, stuck in no-man's land. I can get every chariot there to the staging tile in time, except maybe not the sentry. And he's the one I'd want most of all. I need to make a plan for the sentry chariot this turn. Either I send him south and hope Moogle doesn't double-turn me, or I send him north and west to scout. But maybe putting a sentry chariot on my border with sunrise is not the wisest move for some reason Either way, that sentry still has movement this turn and I need to figure out what I'm doing before I go out.

This also tells me how many turns I have to build any participating chariots. I won't show the work here, but the final tally ends up being:

Piranha Plant: 1 chariot
Birdo: 1 chariot (after finishing it's barracks)
Bob-Omb: 2 chariots
Angry Sun: 2 chariots

So we're looking at 10 chariots total, 11 if I can get the sentry chariot past Moogle's spear.

I also figured the worker micro to build the roads:


[SIZE="1"]Yuck, that light blue really didn't come out against the desert tiles, did it?[/SIZE]

I'm bringing over the worker by Bob-Omb as well. He's circled in blue; the two workers by Angry Sun are circled in yellow and green. So here's the plan in chart form:



The chopped tree goes into a chariot at Angry Sun.

Then we move out and if his capital isn't defended well we raze it. If it is then we scatter amongst the flood plains and pillage as much as possible.

[pindicator]

Oh man, I love mackoti's response.
Actually, sunrise made a good response too. He stepped away, cooled off a bit, and made a level response to my b.s. post. I'm not likely to continue down that same line because I feel like a big enough ass for provoking sunrise in the first place. From a game perspective I think its best not to post for a while though.

[pindicator]

Turn 106

Iron in crappy tundra and desert locations.



I'm still trying to decide where is best to plant the city. At least it will be easy to deny Moogle his iron (unless he has other sources).

Sunrise planted his 9th city, north of Thwomp by about 7 tiles. So Lewwyn is up there? Good to know.

Metal Casting in 7, I think. The new city may make it 8 turns. Pillage gold may make it 7 again

[pindicator]

I think I'm going to settle the SW iron. I just can't see a great spot in the SE, or even a spot that will be productive before Civil Service (and hardly even productive after). I suppose I could settle 1SE of the iron over there, and pick up the wheat when borders pop. That'd also give me 9 forests for chopping out whatever I so desired. But that land is just so depressing.

But if I settle the SW iron then I'm taking a city that is going to be worthless forever (which is about how long it will take me to do my Liberalism bulb idea and then tech Fishing at this rate). And without building a navy of my own it is not going to be too hard for someone to sail a boat around and land troops to cut it off.

Then again, the SW one will cost less in distance mainteance, and it can grow onto some grassland cottages while it waits for Fishing. And if Moogle takes ut Angry Sun then it'll be the SE iron that is less secure.

So it's the SW iron I'll settle.

...i think.