A Challenger Appears!

[oledavy]

Why did you pick Native America? I thought the point of CRE was not having to build monuments.*

[SIZE="1"]*Please note, this is not a pointed question, but a genuine inquiry.[/SIZE]

[Commodore]

Okay, so we're still debating elements of the map, but the start position is done. As you've picked both leader and civ, have a start shot:



Map is Emperor/Small

[Tankra]

I wouldn't exactly say IND is situational. Quick forges are good for any game type. Also, the hammer bonus on National Wonders is often downplayed or outright ignored, but is a very strong aspect of the trait. Mackoti and I once batted around the idea of leveraging IND into a faux-PHI by beelining literature and throwing up a really early National Epic.

You raise an interesting point. It's true that I'd never really given much thought into how national wonders were boosted by IND. I'm still pretty ambivalent about it though; even though it's a significant bonus, it'll only ever be a few turns at best that you'll be able to shave off of National Epic, Heroic Epic, Oxford and Wall Street, or even a Palace switch. It's a nice bonus, but I'm not convinced it can really affect things that much.

Why did you pick Native America? I thought the point of CRE was not having to build monuments.

Yeah, I anticipated the "why Native America" question when I had the chance to pick other gems such as Sumeria or Rome. It was a bit of an impulse decision after I had pondered the question at length in my head, so I'll try and describe as best I can the machinations of my mind.

First of all, I'm already playing Sumeria in another PBEM on the CivFanatics forums. While they're extremely strong, I don't feel like playing two Sumerian empires at the same time. Kind of boring. Secondly, while Rome is also extremely strong, I'm not a fan of Praets. They too flashy; everyone expects a huge "bang!" when you reach that time of the game, and I just didn't feel like having that responsibility and exhibiting that level of threat from doing nothing at all. I just have a sort of instinctive reaction against putting that kind of spotlight on my pick for the whole classical age.

That being said, Dog Soliders are quite subtle. They're earlier than most other UUs, but nobody really expects a rush like they do with War Chariots or Immortals. They're extremely good at what they do, and they last almost as long as the Praets while costing much less. Also, from my experience with myself, I push my farmer's gambit quite far during the early game. Having the Dog Soliders there just offers a measure of security and deterrence that I just couldn't get otherwise.

Needless to say, I probably won't build a single Totem Pole all game. But then again, lots of UBs are quite bad as well. Just look at China, a civ that two of my opponents apparently planned on picking. Their UB is next to useless, unless maybe for a cultural victory. But then again, who does that?

Hopefully I've answered your question. My next post later on today shall be about my starting position and my initial plans. Looking forward to your replies. And for future reference I don't mind pointed questions. By all means, keep me accountable for my noobishness!

[CFCJesterFool]

First off - completely unspoiled so hope you don't mind me ded-lurking you. Why? you may ask. Hatty rocks and for multiplayer, NA actually pretty good. In all pretty good choice and more importantly..interesting. Looking forward to the game plan. You should be fairly safe early and CRE just gobbles up land. Do you plan on doing a hard REX? Can't wait to find out.

P.S. "Somewhat terrible Immortal player" just a joke. Actually pretty solid.

[Tankra]

Sounds good, glad to have you aboard. I'm another somewhat terrible Immortal player, so we're kindred spirits!

And yeah, I think the game-plan will include at least a fair amount REX. We'll see how it works out.

[Tankra]

Alright, so let's look at this here starting area and see what we can do with it.

So first off, let's keep in mind that my starting techs are Fishing and Agriculture. Like Ceiliazul pointed out previously, these starting techs are much better if I actually have some fishing resources. At first glance, there doesn't seem to be any, sadly enough, but the sea is nonetheless within reach. First off, let's see what my prospects of getting fish are:

-Settling 1S. My city becomes coastal and I earn the chance to discover 3 new water tiles in my BFC, one of which might or might not be a sea resource. In exchange, I lose access to the deer and one of the two hills plains. I also lose 3 forests (initial position has 6, 1S has 3)

-Settling 1N and 1 NE. If I'm not mistaken about that river ending there, I open up X amount of water tiles that might or might not have fish. In exchange, however, I lose a turn and I don't get to have that sweet wheat, those sweet hills plains or that ivory within my capital's BFC. Also, I can see the glaciers in the water to my east, which reduces my chances of profiting from such a move. Forest density doesn't change.

Not sure how cool those choices would be. Perhaps I would do best to say goodbye to seafood. Let's look at some land-locked options:

-Settling in place. An obvious enough answer.

-Settling 1N. This seems like a very respectable move. No loss of special resources, a net gain of 2 forests, no change in river tiles and no loss of plains hills. Not too shabby, but not very profitable.

-Settling 1SW on the ivory. This is a ballsy one. Net loss of 2 forests, the deer and the sheep. In exchange I get 1 free hammer in my city and a bunch of river tiles for cottaging. I get to keep my plains/hills and the deer and the sheep can go towards making a new city at maybe 1N-1NE. The potential is there.

Those are pretty much all the settling schemes I can think of, so I'll recap them here for easy viewing

In place: Almost no risk - 1 Unknown BFC tile; 6 Forests; 4 Resources; 4 River tiles; 6 Hills; No seafood

1SW: Low risk - 3 Unknown BFC tiles; 4 Forests; 2-3 Resources; 7 River tiles; 5 Hills; No seafood

1N: Low risk - 4 Unknown BFC tiles; 8 Forests; 4 Resources; 4 River tiles; 5 Hills; No seafood

1S: High risk - 4 Unknown BFC tiles; 3 Forests; 3-4 Resources; 4 River Tiles; 4 Hills; Moderate chance of seafood

1N-1NE: Very high risk - 9 Unknown BFC tiles; 6 Forests; 2-3 Resources; 4 River Tiles; 2 Hills; High chance of seafood; Loss of 1 turn

---

At this point I honestly don't really know which I'm leaning towards. The two seafood choices aren't looking very good though. I'll have to sleep on it, and I'll see what feedback I get.

One disclaimer, though: I never, ever settle in spots that make me lose one turn. It's something that never strikes me as a good idea. So perhaps someone without this same mental blockage can point out a site I just neglected.

[Commodore]

I won't give general advice, that's for the wise Mr. Ceiliazul. I will however correct one misapprehension there, the grass ivory would not be a two-hammer plant. Two-hammer plants occur when the base tile has 2 hammers unimproved, most commonly seen on plains hills. Flat plains ivory would be a 2-hammer plant.

[Tankra]

Good point, and thanks for the correction, Lord Garithos.

[Ceiliazul]

I won't give general advice, that's for the wise Mr. Ceiliazul.

And JesterFool too, hopefully.

Thanks for the ivory correction, I agree with you. As a result, the ivory tile is not a good city site.

Tankra, first off think about your warrior move. You don't need to decide the settler until after you scout with your warrior. Likely after you move him you can make a more informed decision.

Warrior moving NW onto the pl-hill reveals 9 new tiles... that'd be my advice. Alternatively, he can move SE and scout 3 water tiles.

Second... plains hill starts are absolutely worth losing a turn. If you can keep all the same resources but gain 1h in the city center, it's a slam dunk. This is because even after losing the turn, your first worker (or boat) still comes out earlier after moving. You lose a turn of research, but you get your first special done 1t sooner, your next worker sooner, your 2nd city sooner, etc.

If you have to give up a resource (like the sheep) that's tougher to weigh.

[Ceiliazul]

Good point, and thanks for the correction, Lord Garithos.

Way to butter up the mapmaker! Commodore *loves* to rule over fallen empires...