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dazedroyalty Wrote:That said, I've also always been more of the mindset that the community value and having active participation was/is more important than trying to create specific and nuanced "lurker rules" (no offense to those who created them). I'm okay with my opponent get a small bit of info from time to time if it means we have more active commenting in threads as a whole.
So... Whatever T-Hawk decides to do, I'm okay with it.
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I guess I agree with this. My opinion is that it's impossible to change anything at this point anyway. However, I was sort of hoping that teams 1 and 3 might want to play on after the CV so that we could see some late game warfare. Maybe they would feel better about doing that if this didn't completely blindsided them.
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Hesmyrr Wrote:I don't understand why people are bringing up arrogance here. Is there any way for Spulla to check for T2 power without significant time investment, considering other team has been pouring all their EP on them from the start?
Don't EP costs scale at (2x+y)/(x+2y)? They should be able to get the graphs if they wanted them, unless I'm mistaken. Feel free to correct me on any error. 
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T-hawk Wrote:Side discussion: I am not sure Team 2 is aware of the timing of the victory check; that if they reach Legendary but then team 3 conquers the city that same turn, they don't win. Everyone here better be just as adamant about not telling team 2 that.
That's a really challenging point.
This is purely a mechanics question - all of the information that Sullla needs is publicly available (the SDK in this case, but there are other indicators as noted above). The only thing that we get from sources that Sullla is not allowed to consult is....
that the answer is important.
T-hawk Wrote:That the messenger is a lurker is immaterial
That's not a trivial result.
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I mean to bring it all back to me, and isn't that what it's all about? , I keep thinking of the end of PB1. I was trying to remember if I knew about commando units, or just miscounted tiles, or what. You guys have to remember that was my very first MP game and really my first experience with late-game warfare. Now it's fairly common knowledge but at that point there weren't really any examples to draw on.
So wouldn't Munro have justifiably been upset had someone pointed out to me about how commando units work, and how many tiles my capital was away from the sea? It's a mechanics question? I mean I do understand it's not quite the same situation from a game mechanics perspective, but I still don't feel it's right.
I actually hope that Sullla takes this well. I mean if it happens, it will SUCK, and I know the feeling probably better than anyone else. But I like and have a lot of respect for Sullla, and I think he takes a lot of ill-deserved crap from people (and probably some that is deserved), but I will give him a big  if he is able to give Team 2 a tip of the cap rather than complaining about Cultural Victory being cheese.
So tl;dr - we shouldn't be saying anything.
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kalin Wrote:I'd like to re-emphasize the fact that Sullla didn't treat the CV attempt seriously until a post that shouldn't have been posted. It seems to me that there was little chance he'd have tested how CV works in which case this whole discussion wouldn't have taken place. As such, I'd say again that lurkers should refrain from posting anything in either Team1's or Team2's threads.
Kalin
Well, if he hadn't tested it because of his flawed understanding of the game-mechanic... wouldn't that actually be one of the times when lurker comments are encouraged? At least thats what I remember how this was always treated. Of course, the one who gains something by their wrong understanding will be upset if it is corrected. Heck, I would be pissed. But that doesn't mean it is the right thing to keep quiet.
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dazedroyalty Wrote:I think the repeated referencing to their hubris as a moral failure is excessive and uncallled for.
Oh! I hope I didn't give that impression  . I didn't intend to make a moral judgement, I simply find it a weakness of their team from a gameplay perspective.
Darrell
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It feels too late to do it. We knew about the victory rule weeks ago. It should have been shared then, or not until after the game has ended. And since the time for the former has passed, I'd rather hold it until the game's end. Informing team 1 of it now would suck for them because we have sat on the information up until the point it may no longer matter, it suck for team 2 for obvious reaons, and I doubt team 3 would be very much amused either.
We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing. - George Bernard Shaw
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waterbat Wrote:"It has come to our attention that one or more of the other teams believes that a CV is only possible when the 3 legendary cities belong to one civ. The team(s) in question even tested this out, but because of the obscure fact that the victory check does not occur for the first X turns (is it 5 or 10?), they assumed the victory was not possible." Nice thought waterbat, but I think that spills too many beans. Team 2 will figure out right away that that's why Team 1 hasn't made any meaningful move, and of course they wouldn't want Team 1 told that the CV is imminent. Unlike the mechanics question, that IS spoiler info, about how team 1 perceives the game state.
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Serdoa Wrote:Well, if he hadn't tested it because of his flawed understanding of the game-mechanic... wouldn't that actually be one of the times when lurker comments are encouraged? At least thats what I remember how this was always treated. Of course, the one who gains something by their wrong understanding will be upset if it is corrected. Heck, I would be pissed. But that doesn't mean it is the right thing to keep quiet.
I am not sure I understand what you are saying here. I am saying that I think Sullla wouldn't have even mentioned the CV let alone test and misunderstand, if it were not for the spoiler post.
@T-Hawk: Wouldn't you agree with the above?
Kalin
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VoiceOfUnreason Wrote:The only thing that we get from sources that Sullla is not allowed to consult is....
that the answer is important. Yes... that's the conclusion we came to in the last round of this discussion. Posting about the mechanic isn't inherently verboten, except that the act of posting leaks that the mechanic is important. But now that Sullla has identified the CV attempt, that leak is no longer spoilery.
I do not think that posting about the mechanic leaks that Team 2 is so close to it... that's for Sullla to work out and he may or may not come to the right conclusions. He hasn't been tracking their Great Artists so he doesn't know how far they are.
Kalin Wrote:@T-Hawk: Wouldn't you agree with the above? I don't remember the details, but it had no effect in the end anyway, because Sullla's test went awry and he carried on without changing anything.
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