--Dogpilers click here-- (PB7 Player Communication Thread)

[Ichabod]

By the way, I propose the creation of the "International Criminal Court for Civilization" in order to enforce binding agreements made in civilization games.

Anyone on board for ratifying this treaty?

[SevenSpirits]

???

You mean that deals aren't binding? Um...what RBP game have you played in where we had outside collateral on in-game deals?

PBEM6, PBEM11, PBEM19, PBEM23, PBEM29.

Edit: Possibly PB7 too, but I'm trying to pretend this is not the case, because that is what the rules request.

[pindicator]

@sunrise - In the famous words of Ronald Reagan:

Trust, but verify

[spacetyrantxenu]

@sunrise - In the famous words of Ronald Reagan:

Hail Ronald Rea-- oh, that game is over, I don't have to say that anymore! Anyway, he had a better quote, something about an evil empire. Not sure who that applies to in an AW game, probably everyone.

[Serdoa]

A NAP with me in this game is worth exactly as much as it is in any other game. If other people want to not keep their word here that's their call, and I expect others will remember it going forward.

sunrise, I don't mind how you intend to do your diplo this game, but my understanding of this game was that everyone can make deals how he want in this thread, but should be prepared for them to be broken. That carried for me implicitly the statement that this should not be taken forward into other games. Because if that is done we can imo as well make this a full-diplo game.

[plako]

Sunrise is just fooling you. Don't buy what he is trying to sell. He knows perfectly well there are no binding deals, even if he tries hard to convince otherwise. No deal break in here will affect the future or ongoing games.

[Lord Parkin]

Well, I don't know about that. I for one intend to harbour permanent personal grudges against everyone who declares war on me in this game.

[sunrise089]

Now I'm confused...

my understanding of this game was that everyone can make deals how he want in this thread, but should be prepared for them to be broken.

Other than where the deals are made (past games allowed private diplo, and in many cases early public diplo was banned before contact) this seems to be the same rule we've operated under in just about every RB MP game.

That carried for me implicitly the statement that this should not be taken forward into other games. Because if that is done we can imo as well make this a full-diplo game.

This is fine, but it's just an opinion, and I have a hard time thinking it can really be done anyways.

there are no binding deals...No deal break in here will affect the future or ongoing games.

Same thing - when have there even been binding deals?

Let me offer some ideas for a game with binding deals:

*Soft binding idea 1: Everyone PayPals $100 to the game admin. Players who break a deal forfeit the $100 to a pool to be given by the winner, and must send a new $100 to keep playing. Deals can be broken, but the idea is that the cost is high enough to act as a deterrence. If $100 isn't high enough you could do $1,000 or whatever.

*Soft binding idea 2: Shunning. There is community consensus that deals are sacred in a certain game. Everyone agrees to never play again with anyone who breaks a deal. [unstated, this shunning rule is what enforces the rules we do have at RB, like reading other spoiler threads]

*Hard biding idea: Broken deals get corrected via Worldbuilder, so the game literally can't advance with broken deals.

As far as I know we've never had anything like any of that. Here's the rule we do have in the official rule list:

Diplomacy: Public player thread allowed right from the beginning. No any other format of diplomacy. "Deals" made are not binding.

Now I don't doubt that there's been discussion about trying to keep things non-serious, just like there's been discussion about caring too much about the turn timer But I notice several players in this game came into it with reputations. I have strong doubts if those same players behave a certain way in this game that it won't affect their reputation going forward. In fact, haven't other players already said they will or will not play with certain players from this game again just based on perceived clock obsessiveness?

So yes, as I said, my word in this game is exactly as valid or invalid as it is in other games. IMHO this game isn't "full diplo" because deals have to be done in public and because trades are banned, so there's little to offer your proposed ally. But if Civ X promises me something and then breaks that promise I'm going to remember it and I think many of you are self-deceiving if you feel you wouldn't.

[plako]

I don't know where Sunrise got his rule this is the real one:

Public player thread allowed right from the beginning. No any other format of diplomacy. Everyone can suggest and talk about anything they like in the thread. However no deal made is valid in any court . Biggest deal breaker of the game should be prized not condemned.

I don't understand why is this so hard to understand. Every deal should be taken as zero value. No one is obliged to follow them and in my opinion breaking them should still be seen as positive not negative. I was hoping that would finally allow us to get rid of the totally unnatural NAPfests.

[sunrise089]

300AD is an interesting time to correct the rule that's sat in the Tech thread and been labeled official all game

But still, I don't know why we're even having an argument. I'm not suggesting anyone is obliged to follow deals. I'm just promising I will, unilaterally, do so. I'm not telling you how you should or should not view broken deals, I'm just saying that it's human nature to remember them. And, we're 1/3+ through the game and there have been....zero?...NAPs? So what's the problem?