[SPOILERS]Luddite: A Man, A Plan, An Also-Ran

[MWIN]

So what is the plan or plans?

Can I just take a second to rant about how overpowered war chariots are? They take an already powerful stock unit, the chariot, and add on a massive 25% increase in base strength. Then, as if that's not enough, they also gain first strike immunity just to guarantee that they'll slaughter archers with maximum efficiency.

Even with one of those WCs being injured, I think I'll need like 7 or 8 archers to bring them down.

[luddite]

Since archers are so terrible, and I can't get HAs in time, I decided to revolt into slavery while roading the horses. Next turn I can make some chariots. With 4 chariots and my archers I should have no problem taking down those WCs.

[Gold Ergo Sum]

I decided to revolt into slavery while roading the horses. Next turn I can make some chariots.

You forgot to thank me.

[luddite]

GES gave me some noob advice that gave me the brilliant idea of revolting into slavery to make chariots

[pindicator]

This isn't quite the same level as NobleHelium - Gaspar banter, but it's still pretty damn enjoyable.

[Gold Ergo Sum]

GES gave me some noob advice that gave me the brilliant idea of revolting into slavery to make chariots

You seem to forget I have chat logs:

Charlie: well i mean, i'm safe from losing cities no matter what, i just want to minimize how much he can pilage

me: You are going to need spears or HAs to stop that. I don't think you can make enough archers to not take a huge beating hammerwise

Charlie: i don't think i have a choice though. I can't hook up horses or copper as long as his WC are roaming freely

me: I don't guess you have the troops to put fortified archers on the horses and build chariots

Charlie: nope

me: So you probably need 7-8 archers. And he will probably reinforce with more chariots by then. The good thing for you is that in Rep, you can still tech, since you don't have to rely on cottages

Charlie: yeah even with citizens i can tech lol

me: You have the horses pastured

Charlie: yeah i could raod them this turn and build a chariot

me: Do a quick double road and build a chariot

jinx

You probably only need 3 chariots and 3 archers

Charlie: yeah i think that's best

me: maybe less with lucky die rolls

Charlie: and the chariots can attack anywhere. I just hate delaying the pyramids so much but I guess I have no choice

[COLOR="Red"]me: Maybe double road and revolt Slavery?

Charlie: mmm... if I do that I might not get any chariots out before he pillages the horses

me: you might be able to whip four chariots before he cuts the horses

Charlie: well. i guess i could convert to slavery, then whip 3 chariots next turn, eating the penalty

me: He is 3 turns from the horses

Charlie: oh yeah[/COLOR]

me: Crossing the river defeats the roads, So you could road the horses and revolt, he moves to the river, put one turn into chariots, he moves one tile from horses, whip horses, they produce, he moves and pillages horses, you have four chariots, not at the penalty, right?

Charlie: yes

TL;DR: Luddite some more until we decide to make chariots, and then due to terrible micro skills, he needs me to explain why he should revolt to slavery and can whip without the penalty before scooter can pillage.

[Gold Ergo Sum]

Luddite asked me to look at his save. This was my response:

Now that I have actually seen the save rather than talking in the abstract while you bother me at work, you are in more trouble than you think.

You need to go to straight archer production in the two southern cities. Best case scenario looks like this:

Capital has two archers (micro to straight build them at 16 hpt the next two turns) and a warrior when Scooter can fork you.

Brisby has four archers when Scooter can fork you (two moving there, one whipped at the penalty, one overflowed out next turn).

You need to penalty whip one chariot each at your stone and marble cities. They will be able to attack scooter one turn after he can attack you.

It will leave scooter two options:

1) Wait to attack and die to superior numbers as you continue to build.

2) Attack your capital, probably with two ~40% odds chances against your city/hill archers, and one ~90% chance against your warrior. If you win even one of those battles, he dies next turn.

So basically, you need to produce units and hold your breath. Your capital is vulnerable due to lack of archers there. If you even had one more warrior you would be able to survive for sure.

As a side note, I would road the cow tile, and move the other worker from the horses to tile 2S of the rice to chop. The following turn I would move the worker from the cow road to the forest 1N of the copper and chop. That is going to be your best case scenario for finishing Mids too. That will leave all your workers 1-turn from hiding in the capital if scooter decides to harass them. Once you have 3 archers in the capital, you can go back to Mids production.

[luddite]

Alright, let's see what's gotten GES so scared...


Really? That's it? Scooter did exactly what we expected, and AT sent out 1 archer? There's really no chance he'll take any cities (he would only get like 10% chance against an archer in my capital), i just don't want him to delay the pyramids with too much pillaging.

So, gotta clear out those chariots as fast as possible. I 2-pop whipped a chariot in my 3 cities that were big enough. Painful, but it gave lots of overflow. Brisby was only 3 pop, so I 1-pop whipped an archer, and it'll have enough overflow to finish a chariot next turn.

I moved down 2 archers. If he goes after the one in the NW, it'll be somewhat annoying, but it'll delay him an extra turn while I build more chariots. If he goes after the one NW of Brisby, I think I'll have enough units (# archers and 3 chariots) to finish off his whole stack.


New demos: I went up a lot in power, but of course way down in everything else. Someone else still has more power than me:

[Gold Ergo Sum]

You get 40% cultural defense in the capital. That is what I forgot how to find the number for. So your archers are what, 3 + (3 * 1.15) = 6.45 v. 5? Or does the cultural defense calculate differently?

I am bad with estimating combat odds, but I didn't think scooter's odds would be too terrible with those numbers. But I guess they are.

You can noob up the city micro, I will noob up the combat related stuff.

Why whip the capital if you are so safe? Why not spend one turn on an archer, and then go back to Mids?

And why did you leave that archer out in the open in a vulnerable position when you could've moved it 2S and made it safe? Were you setting a trap because your whipped chariots can all hit that tile next turn, and it would prevent horse pillaging for an additional turn?

[luddite]

Setting a trap
Also this way he can move down to attack the horses if there's an opportunity.

And I think you're forgetting that the capital is on a hill, so i get 50% (archer city bonus + 25% (archer hill bonus) + 25% (regular hill bonus) + 40% (culture) so 3*2.4 = 7.2. Next turn the culture will go up to 60%

I could have defended the capital just building archers, but I wanted to clear them off my land as quickly as possible so that I can get back to building the pyramids, and I think whipping chariots was my best chance for that. Chasing down war chariots with archers is just a nightmare.