The Kuriotates: A Tale of Centaurs, Hubris, and Unbridled Enthusiasm

[HidingKneel]

Alright, another turn played. Pesky barbarians are once again crimping our style. This time, there's two warriors up north sitting on our dragon bones. There's another warrior behind those, so we won't be able to benefit from those bones for the next two turns. But we'll still be able to get exploration done in two turns.

Hmm, I'm not sure that's the best use for a GSage, but we have time to debate.

Another question we can debate: if we go mysticism next, do we want to swap to god-king? It'd actually be pretty handy right now: +6gp and +9 hammers per turn in Kwythellar. That'll pay for a turn of anarchy in 4 or 5 turns, both hammer-wise and beaker-wise.

So what's the plan for getting the incense accessible? Surely it'll work one of these times...

Well, we've got two warriors in position to move next turn. Our former warrior is still at half health, so I don't anticipate any difficulty getting control of the barrows again. And our western worker team will finish a silk plantation next turn, on schedule to start working the incense two turns from now if the barrow's clear. Or, you know, to start running in case we roll azers .

[Commodore]

How much more would the civic cost though? I'd be shocked if it did much more than broke even.

[HidingKneel]

Another turn played. Bad luck all around.

First, barbarian warriors are encroaching on Naggarond and Avelorn. Each of them had a promoted warrior at hand, so I thought I'd attack out. Lost both battles (73% odds and 80% odds, respectively). Avelorn only has one defender left (unpromoted), so it's in a little bit of danger if the barbarian earned some promotions.

In other news, we killed our warrior that was defending the barrows and popped them. Got the "spider nearby" result. If I understand the AI correctly, that spider won't move while it's in my culture? So it's safe to send workers next to it? Anyways, I had Kwythellar 1-turn a scout so I can see where it is. Assuming our warrior isn't spider-food next turn, I'll pop the barrows again (it's still there ).

How much more would the civic cost though? I'd be shocked if it did much more than broke even.

I didn't think of that, but don't think it'll cost us more that 1 or 2 gpt.
(I'm not sure what "high upkeep" means, mechanic-wise, but I ran a test in a sandbox and it didn't seem to make a big difference: only the +10% distance cost modifier was noticable). So it'll still pay for itself, beakerwise, if we aren't planning to switch civics for another 8 turns (and in reality it'll be more like 12-15 turns). Plus, we could swap to pacifism at the same time to give a little boost to our sage production.

No screenshots this turn; I'm travelling and can't figure out how to take them with my laptop.

[Mardoc]

In other news, we killed our warrior that was defending the barrows and popped them. Got the "spider nearby" result. If I understand the AI correctly, that spider won't move while it's in my culture? So it's safe to send workers next to it? Anyways, I had Kwythellar 1-turn a scout so I can see where it is. Assuming our warrior isn't spider-food next turn, I'll pop the barrows again (it's still there ).

I know that's how it works with 'spiders infesting a mine'. I think it ought to work the same from the lair, but I'll admit I'm not certain.

In fact, as long as we *don't* have a recon unit in the area, we should be able to even improve the tile it's camping on.

[HidingKneel]

The wild roller-coaster that is FFH XXI continues!

The barbarian I was worried about near Avelorn attacked, no damage to us.
Got us a promotion though. There's only one warrior in the city right now; I'll build another one once the monument finishes. Our eastern worker team got started on a road connection between Naggarond and Avelorn.

But the really big news: all that trouble with the barrows has finally paid off. I popped it again this turn for another great engineer . Now en-route to Kwythellar. I'm thinking of settling him, but am open to other ideas. Maybe fire off a golden age when mysticism comes in? We could make an anarchy-free switch to God-King and pacifism, giving us +250% on our great person production (netting a great sage in 7 turns).

Oh, and our western workers are headed toward the incense. I messed up the micromanagement, so that'll take 3 turns instead of 2 (assuming no trouble from the spider).

Breakeven science rate: 50%

[Mardoc]

I don't think a GA is worth having quite this early in the game. Too many of our worked tiles produce either no commerce or no hammers. Especially since settled, the GEng is worth 4.5 beakers/turn.

I am, however, half-tempted to suggest we bulb either Bronze Working or Smelting with him.

Or...we could really put a spoke in Selrahc's wheels, research to Philo next after Mysticism, and use him to build the Prophecy of Ragnarok for our very own . Build it in our lowest hammer city, the one least likely to be our military pump. I think that's probably Naggarond, since it has no Remnants. Still leaves the question of what to do about Bob, but - it'd be very funny to see people's reactions

[Mardoc]

Or...we could really put a spoke in Selrahc's wheels, research to Philo next after Mysticism, and use him to build the Prophecy of Ragnarok for our very own . Build it in our lowest hammer city, the one least likely to be our military pump. I think that's probably Naggarond, since it has no Remnants. Still leaves the question of what to do about Bob, but - it'd be very funny to see people's reactions

The more I think about this, the more I like the idea. A couple salient facts:

Selrahc has the world's lowest MFG, at 12. When he entered Slavery, T22, his MFG was 10
Prophecy is 335 hammers
Hence his build time is 28 turns at 12 hpt; his initial low MFG and a last second whip probably cancel out to Ragnarok finished right about T50. Assuming he began work instantly, and didn't, say, finish building a Warrens.

It's T36. We have 60 beakers into Mysticism, which means 440 beakers from here to Philo. Discounted by the prereq bonus, that's 367 beakers. Our current break-even rate is ~29 bpt; that would be 13 turns until Philo. But! We'll be getting major boosts as the incense, gold, trade routes, elder councils and sages come online, and all of those are due in the next 5ish turns. Should drop our ETA dramatically. Incense alone should drop it to a 11 turn research project (counting Incense as 6 bpt, ignoring the Academy)

So - if we want Ragnarok, I think we can have it. Then Selrahc has a 1-city, very tight beeline to Philo, civ, without Armageddon to win the game for him :neenernee. Still leaves us having to figure out what to do about Bob, but that buys us time anyway.

And, if Selrahc does manage to get it built sooner - well, we've wasted 10 turns that the engineer could have been settled, but we still have it and can settle immediately afterward.

[HidingKneel]

Played turn 36. Nothing much to report. Will actually get the incense online next turn: I forgot I had an extra worker in Kwythellar. Produced two more workers at EOT. These roads will be in place in no time.

I haven't done anything with the engineer yet, so we can still debate our options:

1) Steal the prophecy from Selrahc. I agree that we could probably manage it, and that it would be hilarious. But I'd prefer not to for a couple of reasons:

a) It's athematic. The good guys aren't supposed to win by building the evil wonder first.
b) Once we neuter Selrahc's strategy, it's no longer an "armageddon game" and more of a normal game. We're the frontrunners and an obvious target. And having the PoR in Naggarond actively hurts us (at least a little) by forcing us to build centaurs elsewhere (unless we want to raise the AC).
c) I don't think it'll be much fun for Selrahc. I'm all for beating him, but I'd like to give him an epic battle (even if it is of the form "massive army of centaurs outside gates killing marked goblins"), rather than completely destroy his gameplan because we happened to get lucky with the RNG.

2) Bulb bronzeworking. If we wanted an immediate rush, we could bulb bronzeworking, set tech to education, and send our workers to connect the bronze. We could get bronze warriors (and bronze axes in Kwythellar) off the assembly line some 10 turns earlier than centaurs. But Selrahc's capital is at least 15 tiles away, so I don't think we can get the army in play any earlier this way (unless we go after Bob first). Plus, when the initial warring is done, I'd much rather have some experienced centaurs than experienced warriors.

3) Tech bronzeworking and bulb smelting. Smelting offers some nice economic boosts (forges, jewelers, reveals iron). But we're on a tight schedule!

4) Fire off a golden age. We're working a lot of commerce tiles right now.
I did some quick estimates: between saving us a turn of anarchy and the boosts it'll give to tile yields, a golden age should net us about 222 beakers and 248 hammers (and a fair numbers of GPP points, to boot). That should shave four or five turns off of our schedule, and let us build a couple of economic buildings. The opportunity cost is that the next golden age will be more expensive, and of course that it costs us the engineer.

5) Settle him. The extra hammers and beakers are always nice, and still quite relevant at this stage.

I'm leaning toward 4), given that we're trying to get our centaurs online ASAP. But I can still be persuaded. What do you think, Commodore?

Breakeven science rate: 40% (we're paying unit upkeep again, thanks to a growing army of workers).

[Mardoc]

Ah, I do tend to get a little too focused on 'winning' and not necessarily enough on 'fun along the way'. I'm fine with foregoing being the good guys who let the ends justify the means.

I think I do agree that bulbing probably isn't the answer - useful, but in the wrong direction.

Payback time on the engineer settled vs. GA looks like about 50 turns. I'll admit, I hadn't realized the GA would be worth that much to us, already! That is, after 50 turns, the engineer has outproduced the GA. Given that horizon - you're probably right to say GA first. Much better to get the benefit between T36-44 than T36-86.

[Commodore]

I'm quite bit more ruthless, it seems. Selrahc's game plan seems so...lame to me, just sitting in a tiny city and praying he beats Bob's Hyborem rush. If it were me, I'd look to tossing down a worthless settlement, rushing the PoR there, and then abandoning the place for the barbs to burn.

GA otherwise, I guess.