--Dogpilers click here-- (PB7 Player Communication Thread)

[Ichabod]

@Mali - My apologies for my missionary next to your borders. He got trapped in the north and needs to move past.

No problem.

[SevenSpirits]

LP got education. Still lacks Philo (and alphabet) though.

[pindicator]

Thats discouraging, but not nearly as discouraging as the turn delays.

[sunrise089]

Mali and I have the best non-Parkin tech rate I think. We can probably keep him from sandbagging Liberalism too much, but I don't know if we can beat him. Maybe one of the SE civs has something planned...

[spacetyrantxenu]

Parkin got another city off me with another cheap double move. You know what, Parkin? I can also play without pressing enter. I don't think everyone else will enjoy it so much that way but hey why the hell not? At least you'll have to wait before you screw me again.

S T O P P O W E R G A M I N G . It is annoying as hell. Is it any wonder this game is NOT FUN and just a big fucking annoyance to play the turns? I don't mind losing because you guys are better at Civ than me but for fuck's sake, stop with the fucking double moves all day and all night long. You took my city after the turn rolled at ONE HOUR after your previous move. You didn't even make an effort to not double move. You play with no honor for someone in a freaking casual game. Enjoy your win, it should taste saccharine sweet.

Go play a PBEM where you can prove yourself against PLAYERS instead of against the clock. And really, as far as the CFC MTDG goes if they're crazy enough to not have game enforced double move rules...well I guess your antics will work to RB's favor in that case. But seriously....enough of this shit for me. I'm going through the motions from here on out.

@World: I declare war. Come at me, bros. I've had enough of this farce.

[Lord Parkin]

I had visibility into two of Mao's coastal cities. One had a single Archer defending. The other was left without any defender... for seven consecutive turns.

Did I make an opportunistic double move? Sure. Did the visibly absent defenses help to provide the opportunity? Yes.

If we all want, there's nothing stopping us switching to a more structured war system. I don't think it would be that difficult, as most people are probably only actively at war with one person (if any). I would certainly be glad to agree not to double move in any active conflicts if everyone else wished to do the same. Indeed, I'd prefer it to the current system, simply due to the reduced stress.

I actually don't think I'll play in any future Pitboss games which allow double moves - they're just too stressful. Either take advantage of them and irritate other players... or don't use them, and lose an advantage to the folks who do (e.g. Pindicator currently, others in the past). It's a lose-lose situation.

I think simultaneous Pitboss generally works best where double moves aren't allowed. For the record, I've played PBEM games before - I'm just not a fan of them due to past experience of their slow pace, even with a small number of players. (Though after observing a few here it seems the RB ones aren't too bad on the pacing front.) I think sequential Pitboss is slightly better than PBEM as it accomplishes the same thing except in a slightly more streamlined way, and without the potential for arguments over RNG results. You do have to find a host there though.

[pindicator]

I was thinking about this on my drive home from the coast, and seeing spacetyrant's post makes me think it's time to put this out there:

I nominate sunrise089 as winner under the diplomatic victory condition of the game. He is the #2 in score, has awesome demographics and is in a great position to do well further on (that last tech only took you 8 turns so on the GNP). Plus he has done nothing but play honorably -- well, maybe that part isn't quite in the spirit of the game but it's been admirable nonetheless.

Even though I am having a ton of fun with this game -- Moogle, don't short yourself; this war is far from decided -- I can't help but see a pattern as first ASM, then Twinkletoes, and now Spacetyrantxenu and Commodore have expressed considerable dismay about the manner they have been attacked. Add in multiple turn delays, multiple accusations of research masking, and it appears to me that it is only selfish for me to continue on. Yes, the west is relatively isolated, and perhaps one of the civilizations out here can come out victorious in the end. But to do so at the expense of every civ out east does not feel like it is in line with the spirit this game was proposed. I think it best we vote a winner and hopefully in the future create another pitboss with the spirit of playing a random environment to the best of your abilities, but without the gamesmanship that has otherwise marred it

Edit: cross post with LP

[Commodore]

Half a second to that vote.

[SevenSpirits]

I'd even vote for Parkin of the Neverending Turn over Sunrise of the NAP.

[spacetyrantxenu]

Blah blah blah it isn't my fault it's your fault blah blah blah I don't have a problem with the rules, it's just everyone else's perception of the rules that is flawed.

1. You admit an opportunistic double move. You say my lack of defender caused the double move? No. You clicked the mouse, didn't you? You could have taken the cities without double moving. Given the number of times you've been told about your overbearing behavior in this game already, why do it anyway? Can you really not help yourself?

2. Um, I wouldn't believe you would adhere to any system more complicated than this simple system you already abuse. More rules is just more loopholes, or put another way, new game mechanisms to test and find weakness in to exploit to your advantage.

3. Your assurances aren't worth the bits on the screen. You'd double move in an always peace game if it gave you advantage (and it can so you would).

4. To my knowledge the folks playing in PB5 haven't had major problems with double moves yet. They're playing, you know, like gentlemen. You can be competitive and not exploit the rules. Some of the players there are acknowledging in their threads where they're specifically avoiding double moving. I'm not following your thread here obviously so maybe I'm wildly misinformed. But usually when you get a mention in the public diplo thread it's following some event where you pissed someone off because you double moved them. You do understand why playing a game differently from how it was intended to be played would piss people off, right?

I'm still waiting for the punch line in all of this. Parkin is running some kind social experiment and we've all failed. Go ahead and explain why.

As for ending the game, I don't see why it has to end. I'm not enjoying it anymore so I don't care if the game continues or not (note: this is not as of when Parkin started taking cities from me, I've been disengaged from this game for a month or more). But other people say they are enjoying it and I don't see a reason to deprive them of their entertainment when they are not the cause of the problem. Back when we had a game admin (remember back before Parkin drove Mist to madness and he ALT+Q'ed this game?) there was a suggestion to remove the offending party from the game. Booting Parkin seems a better solution than ending it for everyone. He's been warned multiple times already and Just. Doesn't. Get. It. And to avoid the appearance that there's something in it for me someone else can take over my civ or worldbuilder an ocean over my cities if the appearance of propriety matters. I'm not looking to get rid of the guy who is taking cities from me. I'm looking to get rid of the guy who can't understand the terms of the game he signed up for and keeps pissing in people's corn flakes. But whatever, I'm one half of one vote in a 16? player game. We certainly don't need anyone to administer this game for us!

Edit: x-post with Seven, I'd vote for Seven over LP if that tells you anything....but I'm not voting to end this because no one has EARNED a win yet.