[SPOILERS] Hiding in the Corner - Mattimeo plays Turkey

[Mattimeo]

Nothing to see here, move along people.

How long do these spoiler protection things need to be, anyway? Is there a word limit? Character limit? Or just can't extend past the first post?

Eh, hopefully that's enough spam and we (assuming anyone out there is actually paying attention to me) can get started...

[Mardoc]

How long do these spoiler protection things need to be, anyway? Is there a word limit? Character limit? Or just can't extend past the first post?

50 words, or the end of the first post, whichever comes first.

[Mattimeo]

So uh... I have no idea how to play Diplomacy with all the actual diplomacising... Played a few games against AI, and I'm reasonably sure I understand the basics of the actual rules, but yeah, interacting productively with people who are going to attempt to stab me in the back at some point isn't exactly my forte.

On the other hand, I did manage to get my first pick, so that's a plus, right? :D

Now, off to attempt some of that talking to people, if I can find anyone around. Russia (Rowain), Austria (Tatan) and Italy (Twinkletoes) being the main ones, obviously, but I'll have to keep a line open to those of the north-west theatre powers as well if I want to actually matter in this game...

[Mattimeo]

50 words, or the end of the first post, whichever comes first.

Ah, cool. I'd kinda assumed that the first post cut it off, but I figured padding it out a bit just in case couldn't hurt.

[Mattimeo]

Also, rules question: if I support a unit in holding, but that unit has other orders that it cannot fulfil, will the support work when it fails to move?

(say, A(Con) -> Bul, A(Smy) Support A(Con). If A(Con) -> Bul fails, will it have support in holding in Con? or would the support fail because malformed order?)

[Amelia]

It is my belief that it will be a fail support. Get it checked though, because i've never encountered that before and have no experience of it.

[rho21]

Also, rules question: if I support a unit in holding, but that unit has other orders that it cannot fulfil, will the support work when it fails to move?

The support will fail.

Just in case, note that units that have orders other than move or hold can still be supported to hold e.g. F Eng convoys A Wal -> Bre, F Nth supports F Eng. The support order there works just fine, whether or not A Wal is convoyed correctly.

[Mattimeo]

The support will fail.

Just in case, note that units that have orders other than move or hold can still be supported to hold e.g. F Eng convoys A Wal -> Bre, F Nth supports F Eng. The support order there works just fine, whether or not A Wal is convoyed correctly.

Thanks for the clarification.

Now, as Amelia suggested, starting game state and a short analysis of general randomness that's probably completely off the ball :D


England - Tasunke
England has two main choices to make, early game. Whether to ally with France or Germany (or neither, 'cause they've allied with each other to come eat her), and whether to push most of her energy into this fight, or focus on Scandinavia. Of course, if she allies with France, she can theoretically do both of these at once...
If I was playing England, I'd try to push peaceful expansion on France to start with (Bre->MAO allows both English fleets to go east), but buddy up with Germany (German help in Scandinavia is invaluable for pushing back Russia, and English help can let the Germans make short work of the French mainland, leaving England with control of the sea from MAO to BAR).

That's also indicentally what I'd like Tasunke to do here - occupy Russia up north, and there can be gains to be made in the south. Or at least, significantly less chance of me having to fend off all three of me neighbours coming at me from the get go.


France - scooter
France... France is not a country that I've actually considered much. You presumably want to obtain Por and Spa for the builds, especially given you've got pretty much exclusive access to them for a while, but trying to grab them both first year can leave you too stretched out to deal with agressive opponents. Obviously want some kind of alliance with either England or Germany against the other, but you also have to watch for Italy trying to sneak through Pie, or W.Med later on.
If you can be sure England isn't going to the Channel, you have a tough choice - go there yourself, stating agression right from the start, or head to MAO with the intention of grabbing Por with the fleet.

Not entirely sure what I'd prefer scooter to be doing. In the long run, French fleets dominating the Western Med (or, really, any fleets dominating the Western Wed) are going to cause me trouble, so anything that discourages that will be helpful. Though the only real thing that discourages France from building ships in the Western Med is not actually having the builds to do so, which is not exactly something I can directly influence...


Germany - Bigger
Germany is fun. Stuck in the middle, but actually possessing deceptively safe fronts to their east and south. Germany's first choice, as with the other two north-western powers, is which of the other pair to try to buddy up with. Partnering with England usually offers more from the German point of view - they'll likely get most of France and the Low Countries, while keeping a foothold in Scandinavia, whereas teaming with France often ends up with France getting the Isles. Of course, Germany is generally in a better naval position if they've helped kill off England, so that's to be considered as well.

To the east, Russia usually has more pressing problems than attempting to strike the German homelands, but F(Kie)->Den can give some important leverage - you have the ability to bounce them out of Swe, generally considered a reasonably safe Russian build, if they annoy you too much. Having actual leverage always helps when trying to negotiate...

What I'd like Bigger to do? Same as England for the most part, keep Russia occupied and looking north. Do I think that's likely? I have no idea.


OK, that's the north-west theatre covered. Probably results here: scooter and Bigger divide Tasunke up between them before moving on to other endeavours. Only because Tasunke is seeming to have slight issues with actually being around long enough to get any diplomacy done at this point. If that changes before Spring moves have to be sent in, I have no idea what will happen.

South-east theatre (the actually relevant one for me, the first few years) coming later. For now, sleep.

[Mardoc]

The support will fail.

Right. The relevant rule is "A unit trying to move can only be supported by a support order that matches the move the unit is trying to make". Page 7 of the rulebook.

Also, sleep faster! . I want to hear your takes on the rest of Europe.

[Mattimeo]

Italy - Twinkletoes
Italy is in a bit of an awkward position at game start. Adjacent home supply centres with Austria and fairly limited neutral expansion prospects (garunteed Tunis, or capable of making a play for Greece depending on alliances). This tends to encourage most Italian players to head towards Austria. On the other hand, France is also fairly close, and possibly not expecting Italy to come gunning for them...
Alliance-wise, Italy often looks to Russia for help in dividing up Austria, and thenlook to secure both their flanks by cleaning up Turkey. Allying Turkey and attempting the opposite can also work, but generally takes a little longer to actually deal with Austria, and brings with it the constant tension of ION.

Initially, I don't really mind what Italy does, as long as it's not a Lepanto (set up to convoy the army that took Tun in '01 to either Syr or Smy in Autums '02). I'd prefer to see them focusing on landwards expansion rather than naval, since ION can be set up as a stalemate line fairly early.


Austria - Tatan
Ah, Austria... one of the most likely countries to be eliminated early but also (assuming they survive with a decent power base) one of the more likely to actually win outright. A default assumption for Austria, that you should be attempting to change by talking to the involved parties, is that Italy, Russia and Turkey all want your land relatively soon, with Italy and Russia being the immediate threats (Turkey can't actually reach any of your home centres in '01, but they can impact on your expansion).
Movesets for the first year generally depend on whether you can extract an alliance out of Russia or Italy. If you can, go for expansion (Tri->Alb, Bud->Ser). If you can't, the hedgehog is probably your best bet - bounce Ven and Gal, secure Ser so you can actually get a build.

Austria is one of the two countries that Turkey has to seriously consider for alliances in the very early game (the other being Russia). Working with Austria is usually easier, involving less trust on your part and usually ending up with Turkey having the stronger position.


Russia - Rowain
Russia is fun. Starting with 4 units, a secure flank, a free expansion area that you don't hit conflict for a while, and the opportunity to completely evicerate someone early on if you put the effort in, you're reasonably solid for the first few years of the game.
The early decision that Rowain must make is whether to focus on the north (Scandinavia) or the south (Austria / the Balkans / Turkey), though the only real difference in these focuses is where A(Mos) ends up. I would quite like him to focus on the north, and there's a possibility that he'll judge Tasunke a relatively weak player and attempt to blitz it for maximum gain early on, but I'm not really holding out much hope for that. More realistically, Mos will be coming south, to either Ukr or Sev (though the latter can fail depending on where F(Sev) attempts to move itself).

A Russia-Turkey alliance is generally considered one of the strongest in the game, since they only need to push one direction - west. However, from my point of view, this doesn't actually help me much. Not only does it leave me much more open to stabs than it does him, but he's likely to gain more out of it than I am. Unless Turkey is pushing for second, rather than first, a Juggernaut just doesn't seem like an appealing idea...


Turkey - Mattimeo
Last but definitely not least (well, in my opinion), we have Turkey. Turkey has an even better defensive position that England, being wedged solidly in the corner and even having all home centres adjacent to each other. The tradeoff for this is that it's difficult for Turkey to attack. It is a very convincing (or lucky) Turkey that gains two builds in the first winter, as Bul is the only centre we have a reasonable claim on. Rum is Russian, Ser is Austrian, Greece is possible, but usually Austrian (or at least, left to Austria for diplomatic reasons)

Alliances - as covered above, Russia is a strong alliance, but not usually advantageous enough that it's a good idea. Austria works while you're dealing with Russia, but preferred natural expansion after Russia is straight through Austria, and he has to know that. Italy can be useful if you need help defending initially, and can even function later if you're content to utilise only land-based expansion (which gets difficult when you reach places that can be defended from the northern coast). Germany and England are mainly useful for their anti-Russia capabilities, epecially in Scandinavia. England especially is an ally that you can potentially win the game without ever having come into conflict with. France, I'm not sure about. Could be useful for helping discourage a Lepanto by threatening Pie, but mainly functions to distract England and Germany from harassing Russia, and can eventually be annoying with fleets in the Western Med.

Opening moves:
A(Con) -> Bul is almost garunteed
F(Ank) -> BLA is solid defensively, and anythign else is either stupid or showing a blatant alliance with Russia (ie. stupid, either for allying with Russia, or making it so obvious early)
A(Smy) is the main decision to be made. ->Con is a nice set-up for getting it out into an actual fighting zone, and is not generally considered agressive my anyone (unless Austria is *really* paranoid). However, it can restrict your builds - you're unlikely to be moving Bul in Autumn, so Con is stuck on top of a centre you probably want to build a Fleet in (to allow for defensive actions in both BLA and the Med).
->Arm is generally considered to be a reasonably agressive move towards Russia. However, usually Russia is in a position to counter a push fairly easily, so all it really accomplishes is telegraphing your intentions to the entire board, and annoying Russia. If, however, Mos moved north, or you were allowed into BLA, it can be quite strong, allowing pressure on Sev and potentially denying Rum (or evern taking it for yourself).

and sorry for not sleeping faster, Mardoc