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sunrise089 Wrote:@luiddite - Compared to what though? The recent discussion has been about Cre vs Ind or Org. Cheap forges isn't something to write off, but I still find my average city gets a library as its second building (forges come later usually, don't need barracks everywhere). I'd much rather have cheap libraries to build while my cities are growing/regrowing than cheap buildings that come 30t later.
Well, early game, any building other than granaries and monuments is unnecessary. I'd rather just build whatever units are necessary, and then expand. If you want to grow a cottage city, it's better ( http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=301724) to just run max food and cottages, rather than cutting growth to whip or build a library.
Once you get CoL, a courthouse could potentially save you more than 5 gold per city (see PBEM29) plus 2 espionage points, which will be much better than a library unless the city is really big(it would need about 40 commerce for a library to do the same). A lighthouse can also be better, providing +2 or +3 food to a coastal city. Forges are a bit harder to compare, but I'd still say they're at least as good as a library if you don't need the scientist slots.
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luddite Wrote:You're right about not oversimplifying creative, but cheap libraries aren't all that great. In the early game theyre mostly just a way to run scientists, and you can do that for free via caste system/golden age. cities have to be fairly well developed for 25% science to be better than just growing more population. Admittedly the high maintenance might change that a bit.
Yeah, this. Courthouses and Forges are better to get before libraries in most cities. Main other reason to get a library earlier is, ironically for creative, the culture.
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What are you guys building while growing your cities and before CoL is in? Units everywhere?
I'm not claiming it's better to whip/work mines for a Cre library, I'm just suggesting there will be a window most of the time between granaries and courthouses in some cities.
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sunrise089 Wrote:What are you guys building while growing your cities and before CoL is in? Units everywhere?
Yup, mostly units. Only 1-2 libraries (capital, and a city making a GS). There are also lighthouses, monuments, workboats, missionaries (and potentially a monastery), and wonders.
Library could also happen specifically for a city that will be in a culture fight, or doesn't need culture enough to warrant a monument and can't get a religion.
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You can also just built wealth, or a wonder that will never finish just for the fail gold. If the city is only making 1 or 2 hammers per turn that's probably the best use of them.
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Forgive me Luddite, but how many times have you went up to CoL using the Currency route? I normally use Priesthood instead, and thus run out of things to build (Temples?). Units are good, yes, but we're talking about Immortal difficulty here, right?
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Plako just changed the map size to huge although the map dimensions still correspond approximately to a large pangaea or standard continents map (pangaeas and some other maps use smaller dimensions per size than most maps because they are mostly land).
What effect does this have compared to the large size it was before? Distance maintenance goes up 11% (90% of base -> 100% of base). #cities maintenance goes down by a fifth (25% -> 20%). Corp maintenance goes down by a third (which also means you get correspondingly less benefit per resource), 75% -> 50%. Tech costs go up by 7% (140% -> 150%). And I believe it means you can draft 5 units a turn instead of 4.
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Amelia Wrote:Forgive me Luddite, but how many times have you went up to CoL using the Currency route? I normally use Priesthood instead, and thus run out of things to build (Temples?). Units are good, yes, but we're talking about Immortal difficulty here, right?
I think in all the games that I played here, I had both currency and priesthood before CoL. If you're really building libraries and temples everywhere before getting CoL then I'd say you're building too many buildings.
So far only 2 teams voted for immortal, right? I really doubt we'll be playing on immortal.
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It appears we may end up on monarch, maybe emperor according to Plako over on CFC.
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SevenSpirits Wrote:Plako just changed the map size to huge although the map dimensions still correspond approximately to a large pangaea or standard continents map (pangaeas and some other maps use smaller dimensions per size than most maps because they are mostly land).
What effect does this have compared to the large size it was before? Distance maintenance goes up 11% (90% of base -> 100% of base). #cities maintenance goes down by a fifth (25% -> 20%). Corp maintenance goes down by a third (which also means you get correspondingly less benefit per resource), 75% -> 50%. Tech costs go up by 7% (140% -> 150%). And I believe it means you can draft 5 units a turn instead of 4.
And increased requirements for cathedrals and National Wonders, right?
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