Leader / Civ selection

[kjn]

I'd be inclined more towards Egypt (Agri/Wheel), Mali (Wheel/Mining), or China (Agri/Mining) myself. The former two with good early UU's and UB's, the latter with a brilliant mid-game UU.

How about France? Also Agri/Wheel, and having a gunpowder 2-move unit in the early renaissance era could be a real boon, since we are likely to be able to go on a real offensive then.

With the relatively large map size and the high maintenance, I don't see a real role for the WC rush.

The Ottomans would be excellent if we choose to go for a vertical buildup of our empire. Extra happiness is nothing to sneeze at.

[v8mark]

I'm kind of inclined to agree with LP. If we take Sumeria for the Ziggurat, it also means we have to invest in the religious techs early to unlock it, and we get a crappy UU to boot. It locks us down into a very specific early strategy. Is that really what we want to be doing?

If altogether possible I'd much rather ignore the religious part of the tree and focus on getting techs like Writing, Math and maybe even Currency. The only argument I'd have for getting Priesthood early is if we have are low on happy resources and need to get Monarcy up and running, but we have a good mapmaker so that is unlikely.

An early religion would be nice too, but I fully expect some other teams to beeline them, and without an Ind leader I don't think we should try and go for the Oracle either (unless we maybe have Marble at our starting position). With a solid start we should be able to land Confucianism anyhow.

Before we get too attached to the idea, let's also consider some other usual suspects like the Ottomans, who start with Agri/Wheel and who have a pretty decent UU and UB as well.

All good points. Of the Agri/Wheel civs:

The thing about Sumeria and the Ziggurats is that it saves us 30 precious hammers on a building that we WILL need to build in EVERY city as soon as possible after about 100 turns given Emperor/Toroidal. I'm not sure it railroads us into the religious path too early, given that our starting techs and traits are very strong for early development; it just gives us the option to unlock ziggurats for fewer beakers and hammers than normal, and the guarantee of hammers saved for every city. I think that's a big deal in purely material terms. It doesn't necessarily synergise well with our leader, but it does with the settings, and Sumeria would be my pick for that reason.

(What are the HRE's starting techs? Sorry, I should know. But that's the other super-maintenance-reducer pick.)

Ottomans we should pick if we don't expect happiness on the map; I expect there to be adequate happiness for each team within reasonable reach if the mapmaker's at all competent (which he is).

Egypt (useless UB, map is huge so WCs won't be useful), France (useless UB!) and Babylon (ugh) are all out for me. So Sumeria would still be my pick.

Contextual disclaimer: I've played one game of MP civ and am an Emp/Imm SP player

[Nicolae Carpathia]

I never got a chance to play with the French UB in my game, but having free GPP and Representation beakers was fine. That and the golden age of bulbing was over, and the golden age of golden ages had dawned.

I don't think Ottomans have ever been something that turned the tide of the game, so I'm not a fan. Musketmen aren't that good, unless they have 2-moves or something.

Finally, the map is not actually huge, the dimensions and hence city distance maintenance are of a "Large" map, but the per-city maintenance is of a "Huge" map. So there's no guarantee this will be a 20min no-rush kind of map. If Plako is good, we'll have options between conquest and buildery. Hence Egypt, for the sheer flexibility of great starting techs for early pottery, and War Chariots to scare the living daylights and discourage aggressive shenanigans. If they're thinking of passively defending themselves, they're not thinking of attacking us.

[v8mark]

Finally, the map is not actually huge, the dimensions and hence city distance maintenance are of a "Large" map, but the per-city maintenance is of a "Huge" map. So there's no guarantee this will be a 20min no-rush kind of map. If Plako is good, we'll have options between conquest and buildery. Hence Egypt, for the sheer flexibility of great starting techs for early pottery, and War Chariots to scare the living daylights and discourage aggressive shenanigans. If they're thinking of passively defending themselves, they're not thinking of attacking us.

OK, that makes sense on the map size, and I hadn't appreciated that; thanks. Perhaps that brings Egypt back into play. I'd still pick Sumeria though probably.

[Azza]

(What are the HRE's starting techs? Sorry, I should know. But that's the other super-maintenance-reducer pick.)

Terrible.

(Hunting/Mysticism)


I personally lean towards Sumeria. Gives a better economic benefit with the UB, and could have the same psychological effect of picking Egypt ("oh no, they've picked an early UU, they must be planning on rushing someone!").

[v8mark]

Terrible.

(Hunting/Mysticism)

OK, no need to discuss that further...!

[Brian Shanahan]

I think you can see your own leader on the stats page.

No vote for leader from me - someone else can vote for me .

On the relations page too (F4 1st tab), IIRC.

[Sullla]

Sumeria is a poor pick. The vulture is worse than a normal axeman. (Especially against teams who choose Aggressive trait; Agg axes annihilate non-Agg vultures. We're placing a huge penalty on ourselves if we choose Sumeria.) The UB is a slightly cheaper courthouse that comes slightly earlier on the tree. Whoop de do. The key way to manage high maintenance costs still involves rushing Currency for +1 trade routes / marketplaces / Build Wealth. Although courthouses are nice, they should never be the main focus. I see way too much focus on the map settings rather than simply picking the best options possible.

I like the Ottomans and Mali the best. Both have excellent starting techs. Mali has one of the best UU in the game, and a minor benefit on the UB. Ottomans have one of the best UB in the game, and a minor benefit on the UU (which is at least draftable). Even if aqueducts are not something that you typically build, the mere fact that +2 happy in every city is an option is extremely valuable. (Pretend Charismatic if you need it.) Ditto for skirmishers: you might not get an aggressive neighbor, but if you do they are priceless.

I suggest focusing on one of those two choices. I don't see anything else suggested here as being equally strong. (Sumeria would not even be on my radar. I think they are terrible.)

[antisocialmunky]

I'd go for Mali, it is a little safer. The +2 from Hammans are pretty nice but you can just use HR MP.

[darrelljs]

I'm addicted to Cataphracts. What techs does Byzantium start with?

Darrell