Leader / Civ selection

[luddite]

Simply put, WCs serve well enough to replace Horse Archers, and they come cheaper and earlier to boot. They also support a builder's game because the threat of WCs will make opponents think twice about attacking us, instead of looking at say England and thinking "hey wait, maybe i should kill them before they get redcoats".

Yeah, WCs are arguably better than Horse Archers because they're just so much cheaper. 2WCs will kill almost anything in the early game, including a spear (usually), and with their low cost and mobility it's quite easy to double team anything.

Admittedly AGG impis would be a problem. But those are equally problematic for any civ except maybe Native America, and at least WCs can be used to finish off wounded impis.

[Mortius]

Admittedly AGG impis would be a problem. But those are equally problematic for any civ

exept Zulu itself. That's why I proposed that we chose the Zulus. Not only would we have better Unique Unit but better Unique Building too.

[Shoot the Moon]

exept Zulu itself. That's why I proposed that we chose the Zulus. Not only would we have better Unique Unit but better Unique Building too.

Yes, but no aggressive Zulu is not particularly appealing or strong.

Also, as luddite pointed out, although normal chariots obsolete at HAs, war chariots do not. It takes all the way until knight for war chariots to be obsoleted, as compared to HAs they are still better hammer for hammer.

[scooter]

exept Zulu itself. That's why I proposed that we chose the Zulus. Not only would we have better Unique Unit but better Unique Building too.

War Chariots are definitely better than Impis, warrior start much better than scout start, and Egypt techs much better than Zulu techs. Impis are a one-trick pony and that trick is a crappy one in a NTT FFA. Impi rush is a sucker's play unless you're in teamer/duel.

[Gaspar]

I don't even see how there's a debate. Unless you're talking Fast Workers, Terraces or Cataphracts none of the UU/UB are good enough to be more important than the starting techs. So you narrow to the starting techs you want and then pick one of those that has UU/UB you can leverage. Hunting is a lousy starting tech because its cheap and means you get a scout start. The Wheel is a great starting tech because its expensive and leads you down the path to Pottery.

In terms of the specific units, non-Agg Impis are pretty much spears. If you're not going to choke someone, which Agg Impis are pretty good at then you've just got spears on defense where mobility does little to help you. WC are clearly superior to regular chariots. We're still highly unlikely to actually rush anyone, but if someone attacks us WC are a lot more useful than Impi simply due to higher base strength.

[luddite]

exept Zulu itself. That's why I proposed that we chose the Zulus. Not only would we have better Unique Unit but better Unique Building too.

The only time impis would be better is if you want to dedicate your game to just taking down someone else. If the Spanish team decides that their only goal in game is to stop us, and they start next to us, then the impis will be really annoying for pillaging/worker steals. And if they're going to play it that way then we might as well just resign. (also they should have chosen Agg/exp for that).

In any ordinary situation, WCs are waaaaay better than impis. I do think the Ikhanda would have been nice, but it's not a huge deal.

[sunrise089]

Something weird to note: every single team that has picked a civ so far, aside from us, has chosen a civ that starts with Mysticism. Possibly coincidence, but isn't it odd?

I know you posted this a while ago, but I'd put the over/under at the number of teams who considered starting techs at 4

Jags, pfft, not scary. Only dangerous in heavily wooded areas, when they can fork cities. And even then, they can't kill axes.

Lot's of experience clearing chokes from jags then?

Snark aside, choking civs are at least nerfed in long timer games because you can't quick move. Then they're further nerfed by double-move rules, the larger map, and diplomacy. Still though a woodsman II jag in your land is a huge pain!

Ease of building them assuming you have the necessary resources therefore goes something like axe > chariot > spear > archer. This is incidentally also the order of their effectiveness in countering barbs.

I rarely disagree with you on micro points Seven, but I think archers are a lot more valuable than you're giving them credit for. Barbs won't always or even often need to be attacked. A well placed archer can defend at high odds versus any barb unit, a lot surer thing than a chariot vs archer battle in the open.

You can have some porpoises. They are basically the same thing.

+ a baker's dozen cookies!

2. Chariots are easly countered by spears (Impis especialy) and fast become absolete. To absolete axes you have to go very far to macemen, to absolete spears to pikemen, and to absolete Chariots you only have to discover horseback riding. It means Chariots are next to warriors the fastest unit to become absolete.

I'm sorry, but I strongly disagree with this.

Once the medieval era arrives axes become useless offensively. They have odds on nothing. War Chariots can always snipe workers, cut roads, pillage, and grab under-defended cities. And what's with claiming horse archers obsolete chariots? They neither officially obsolete them in-game nor beat them in hammer-strength terms. On top of that as warfare become more mobile (so fast movement to respond to threats matters) and less about turtling in cities due to siege (so higher strength relative to the average stack defender matters) war chariots get stronger. Finally, guess the most hammer-efficient MP units once feudalism is researched

Now are Impis an awesome UU too? Sure, but WCs are great and come with the starting techs we want.

[Amelia]

Does HAs obsolete Chariots? Of course. Strength 6 compared to strength 4 is noticeable.

Does HAs obsolete WAR Chariots? No. Strength 6 compared to strength 5 is almost unnoticeable, and since Chariots cost less hammers, and with WC you don't even need to tech HBR for a long time, i'll say Egypt has a lot of strengths.

[darrelljs]

Every time someone researches Archery, an angel loses her wings.

Darrell

[nabaxo]

Why is it taking CFC so long to pick Capac? > _>