[SPOILERS] The Kaiser Strikes back! A Bigger Germany is better

[waterbat]

We would effectively have 9 cores with more to come ( war, STP ). Scooter would have 6. Turkey would be our competition.

[Bigger]

No, standard 24/48 at this point. 0100 Sunday is still Saturday night, in my book.

That is, 12 hours from now I need your build.

thanks for correcting me, woulda been bad if I missed that.

chat with scooter, I'm waiting till I have time to look at the situation to chat w/ Rowain.

me: hey
scooter: hey hey. mattimeo cleeeeaned up
me: no kidding
scooter: fleet builds for us both right?
me: pretty ironic, since you're usually worrieda bout Russia in a TR
yeah
really worried about the east now, I hope we can eliminate England very quickly now so we can turn towards them
scooter: strong turkey is terrifying because it's just so hard to kill
me: yeah
scooter: yeah agreed
think, england will still disband nwg?
he could have in retreat phase, but prob didn't want to give it away
me: i dont know, he told me that but it could have been a deception
scooter: yeah
i'm trying to figure which is best for longest survival possible
and i guess disband nwg does make some degree of sense
since disband army means i can convoy and he can do nothing about it
actually, not true yet
actually yes true. haha
Sent at 1:40 PM on Saturday
me: yeah, i was exhausted last night, andx have a family thing all day 2 today, starting in about 90 mins.. but was planning to take a good look at the map after getting his disband and see what we can do and how fast we can do it
scooter: yeah. i'm almost positive 1 center minimum will fall this year
just from glancing
and that's without considering your units yet
me: I think 1 for each of us is possible
scooter: i think so too if rowain stil helps you
any idea if he will?
me: well
as strong as turkey is, Russia is still very vulnerable to me
scooter: you could prob get nwy help in exchange for avoiding finland or prussia or something
or silesia or whatever that tile is
me: I am considering using that leverage to try and convince him to flip on turkey and ally w/ Austria, would be nice to keep that region in stalemate a little longer, and thats tough if austria is killed off
yeah
scooter: yeah
austria's survival is a positive to us
me: right, so no good talking to matt, but I'm gonna try and get Italy and russia to help him starting tomorrow
scooter: yeah
sounds like a good plan
me: otherwise he could get finished off before England lol
scooter: yeah i don't want that
Sent at 1:45 PM on Saturday
me: we also need to think at some point how we are going to demilitarize the middle countries so I can go towards Russia after England falls and you can go towards Italy/Turkey
although it looks like I might be going towards Turkey too, depending on how far north he makes it
I guess thats a 1904 question, but good to think about now
scooter: yeah, we'll have to leave tiles open to prevent awkward spots. like, after england's dead, no reason to keep units in belgium and holland for example
me: yes, I agree.. although a bit concerned that you won't have anything to do w/ your 2 armies there, whereas my armies can be useful vs russia
scooter: invading italy needs army help too
me: right, but you only have a thin pass, since you can't go through switzerland
scooter: and i'll need armies into italy because i'll be fighting mattimeo for tha tland
well i can convoy through med tiles
me: ah ok
scooter: good chance i'd convoy onto west africa or something to hold tunis that way
that's all just rough ideas, but that's the gist of what i'd do i think
me: I see, long path from ENgland south around iberia tho
scooter: also remember one of those two armies will go over to the isles for a brief time
not really. see that's the thing. i'm building a F in brest
but that can be in west med just as fast as a marseilles build
i can get from iri to tunis in 3 moves
me: yeah thats true
scooter: or i can convoy from british isles to west africa with just 2 fleets
stuff like that. lots of cool stuff you can do
me: oh i see
scooter: yeah. so for example, i'll have F iri, F mao, and an army on the isles
me: so fall, i move my DEN navy into NTH, supported from ska and ENG, you move from IRI to WAL?
scooter: the minute england is dead i convoy to west africa and i'm ready fo ra full-scale med invasion
me: ok, thats comforting
scooter: yeah. well what i'll do is this
i'll order iri-lvp and ENG convoy pic-wal or something like that
that way i'm guaranteed to either take lvp or convoy into wales
me: in the fall?
i meant spring moves above
scooter: yeah I did too
subject to change
but I can do that right now. if i take lvp in the spring with a fleet, it's not recapturable
basically, what I don't want is a guessing game
he's in york now
me: yeah
scooter: logically he'd order yor-lvp
and i'd assume that
so he could try to out-guess me and order yor-wal
if we bounce, i can't take a center
me: well tomorrow I can figure out how much help rowain will be.. I need figure out if he's scared of turkey or comfortable being his vassal
scooter: so i don't want it to to to chance if that makes sense
me: if we can't count on him ill need your support in the spring to get into nth
scooter: yeah
i'm guessing england does disband nwg
but yeah, we'll try to put move together tomorrow based on what he disbands
me: ok
Sent at 1:56 PM on Saturday
me: anyway I think we'll be ok as long as we both get 7th build this year.. if I have too im comfortable taking it from Rowain, although taking an English core would be preferrable, obviously. I'll look at it more carefully tonight and tomorrow
scooter: yeah, i'm almost positive we can both get builds
me: ok, we'll talk again tom, gotta get ready
scooter: sounds good, i'll ttyl
Sent at 1:59 PM on Saturday

leave for the day in 1 hour, if you have time and are able to chat w/ Italy that would be great waterbat, otherwise I'll try to hit him up on sunday.

[waterbat]

Tried TT once on chat, but i was out for the entire day as well.

anyway - I really should have argued for a full 24 hours for the fall retreat phase. I screwed up big time - because these builds were critical for us. <shrug> maybe not critical.

Here's how i think things could have gone for us pre-build:

1) Accept Molach's offer - he brings the British Isles under our influence and protection.
2) Give Scooter the good news - as a team we have 3 cores without fighting.

Sun Tzu comes to mind: something like "to win 100 victories out of 100 battles is not the pinnacle of skill, to win without fighting is the pinnacle of skill."

Something you said earlier already struck me - that you were worried Scooter would get 2 cores and we would get only 1. So we are in a race that we've already won?

To Scooter, the argument is easy:
Germany: 6 cores + 3 cores in Eng + 1 core in NWY which is definitely ours = 10 cores
France: 6 cores + 4 italian cores = 10 cores

And we pledge full assistance to turn those pea-soup tiles to baby blue.

He builds A Marseilles, we build A Berlin. We march on Italy in the spring - moving south also may help prop up tatan (although there isn't much hope over there).

I see all kinds of benefits to this arrangement with one big downside:
pro: -keeps cooperation scooter intact
-demilitarization of the border isnt a problem - we both move south towards italy
-if scooter were to stab, we can choose builds in 6 cores.
-english units move north to isolate russia and/or stick arround to provide discouragement of a scooter stab
-allows us to move right south to assist Tatan - although not sure he has hope

cons: small chance Molach isnt being truthful and switches allegiances or maybe slightly larger chance he goes rogue at an opportune time.
- scooter might take the whole thing as a stab? i dont think so - i think he will appreciate the situation - a win without fighting!


Actually - the fact that we both built fleets - might make it ok.
We can say "Scooter, i know we both built fleets, so its too bad we couldnt work something out with Molach sooner."
If we had built army berlin, it would clearly look like we had this in mind before the build phase.

Anyway - consider this plan Bigger. If we trust Molach to remain faithful to our agreement and we think scooter will take all 4 Italy cores as compensation, i think we should go for it.

I was going to point out that a solo victory still possible with Molach holding 3, but im not sure. Once Scooter completes Italy though, he's going to be stuck at 10. We should be able to get WAR and STP - giving us 9.
Assuming Turkey gets the rest- that would be: 12

maybe a solo isnt possible for us in these conditions - but with 12 (with England) v. 12 v. 10 puts us in the ball park.

anyway consider this plan, bigger, but really - I'm still in the mode of coming up with alternatives to our current path. I think disabling England and turning our attention east is also very viable. Here's a breakdown if we get 1 core out of England + NWY (more likely split and also fair as we each would have 8 cores).

France: 8 cores
Us: 8 cores
Russia: 2 cores (collapsing, but not assured as we have moved our forces to go get England)
Italy: 4 cores
Turkey: 12 cores





In the meantime, ill put in some work on the tactics front - assuming we are continuing to move on England. I think we're going to have to move a fleet into Helgoland Bight before dominating over there.

[waterbat]

email from Molach:

Supporting A hol -> bel again. Meant to cancel that order last year, but it was very late and I had to rush into bed.

I'm probably busy tomorrow so my orders are sent off already and see no reason to change. (That fleet has nowhere he needs to go (he can retreat there instead) and any support from him would be very cut (unless you of course ensure it will not be cut...) so take it or leave it, but he is supporting.

Anyway not gonna punish your country for 'not joining us' by giving france a free tour of the isles. Punish for a broken treaty I will always do, but seemed too petty this time around. So I'll fight everyone on the beaches etc.

Hope scooter did not take the support last year badly.

Jamas: Any chance of you guys planning to stab france now?
Sent at 5:41 PM on Sunday

I wasnt around, but i might have been tempted to propose the delayed (maybe never) stab plan. At least I would have floated it to him.

[Bigger]

chat with Rowain

Offline
Rowain






More ***9660;
me: hey
you got a few minutes?
Sent at 6:43 AM on Monday
me: maybe later? nice job breaking up the AT alliance, but it looks like turkey got the bigger piece of the pie.. you're down 2 cores, and you're still vulnerable in the north.. he pretty much can't be stopped, even if italy helps, unless you turn on him and ally with Austria
was the sev to turkey a deal you made, or did he stab you?
Sent at 6:46 AM on Monday
Rowain: sorry back now
me: np
Rowain: SEV was part of the deal
me: yeah I figured
I guess you had to do whatever you needed to break up AT
and austria wasn't listening
Rowain: yup else it would only be waiting till the hammer falls
me: but still seems like you're in a tough spot
Sent at 6:51 AM on Monday
me: are you promised the last 3 austria cores, while matt turns on Italy?
Sent at 6:53 AM on Monday
Rowain: at least VIE and BUD
Sent at 6:56 AM on Monday
me: and you give up RUM at some point?
Rowain: Not that I know off but we have not discussed that much into the future
and getting the Austrian centers will take alot of time still so who knows what might happen
But lets move from south to north and that means england and norway
me: well I'll get there <g>
here's the situation im in.. obviously Germany fears a RT alliance (as does the whole board, im sure)
I have no ability to attack Turkey at all, unfortunately, but I can hurt you.. I can take Norway this year and probably STP next year, as well as putting pressure on WAR
Rowain: hmpf everybody fears an XY-alliance. We 4 inthe east look with horror at the G-F alliance eating up England
me: lol
well
GF is awkward, GE or FE would be more dangerous for the east, but I get your point
Rowain: Once England is gone the difference between GF eating England and FE eating German is nearly zero.
me: hmm, we'll see.. England can defend itself easier than Austria, tho
Rowain: But I'm sure scooter will be interested to hear that you turn your eyes to the east
less units he sees at his border
me: anyway, on point, I can't hurt Turkey, but I can hurt you - but if you were to stab turkey, and temporarily work with austria, I would have no reason to fear russia
and it seems like Matt is covered against an IA allliance, but is pretty exposed to a stab from you
Rowain: Bigger you are my safeguard agaionst scooter reaching 18. No matter what alliance i do in the east I have no interest in hurting you
me: with italys help you could take 2 or 3 cores from him, you would gget SEV and maybe BUL this year
I understand, but me and scooter have done a good job of not giving the other person an opening for a stab, which is probably the only reason Molach hasn't been able to sweet talk either of us
also, if you you turned on Turkey, I would leave Norway alone (or possibly switch back with you swe-nor if we are able to), and thats another core you would secure
Rowain: Bigger if you think you can win anything by turning against me you will be severly disappointed
yes you can take NWY but rest assured that I then have no intention to stp turkey or do anything else than use any f** unit I have to stall you until scooter rapes your ass
me: I won't have a choice soon, once Austria is gone who else can you attack?
i'd rather see a france-germany-turkey draw than a russia-turkey draw
Rowain: a) If I stay with turkey now and kill Austria then is the time to befirend Italy and kill Turkey
Sent at 7:09 AM on Monday
Rowain: You are between France and Russia. If you think it wise toattack Russia (who has with Turkey a big one at his back) aqnd hope that France does not take you then its your decision
me: I don't want to tangle with you
I also don't think you'll have an opportunity to stab Turkey in the future.. italy is not going to be much help, it would be much easier to let turkey and france gobble up Italy while you turn to me
now seems the only opportunity you'll have
Rowain: Doesn't benefit me to take you on 1:1
Only helps scooter
me: if you and matt have 2/3 the board scooter doesnt have a chance of getting 18 by himself
Rowain: And looking while France + Turkey kill Italy is also absolutly not in my interest
me: worst case you have a 3 way draw w/ france and turkey, or you're able to go past me into scooter and get a 2 way
Rowain: No chance for that to happen
me: how will Italy be able to help you, though? he's not going to be able to make a gain on turkey that I can see
Rowain: 1 I have 5 centeres right now add 2 from Austria I'm on 7 2 off them are exposed and not really defendable agaisnt you
you have 6 right now will get at least one from England and can take 2 from me so what reason should I have to attack you?
me: not now of course
but a year or two when austria is dead
Rowain: Besides if I have to fear a German attack I would be a fool to attack turkey
me: you wouldnt if you attacked turkey, thats my point :P
Rowain: really what are you going to do in say 2 turns from now once England is dead
Sent at 7:16 AM on Monday
Rowain: You have just told me that you plan to attack because you fear a maybe attack from someone with less centers and a more spread territory while at the same time you have a big giant who will get more centers soon right at your border
Not to mention that said giant has nobody else to fear but you
Sent at 7:18 AM on Monday
me: yes, but he has just as much to fear from Germany as I do France, I dont fear a stab from him unless I'm stupid and leave him an obvious opening.. kind of like matt has done w/ you here <g>
Rowain: Well what do you beliebve will happen if you move your forces to the east?
me: as for 2 years.. maybe scooter leaves an opening.. or maybe he doesnt and we have to fight, but thats still 2 more years you keep you cores (assuming we can eeliminate england in 2 years)
Rowain: If you don't f*ck it up England is dead winter 04
me: yeah, I hope so
lol
Sent at 7:20 AM on Monday
Rowain: Lets make it clear. As long as I don't see a German Army in BUR I take any talking about how I should handle the turk as a try from you to attack me.
Sent at 7:23 AM on Monday
me: ok, not much point discussing it then.. I really was trying to see how you could grow in ways that keep our borders distant
Rowain: Itis my firm believe that any war between us 2 would hand the game to scooter dirrectly
Doesn't matter when it happens the result would be the same
me: I think it would hand it to Matt, but same thing really
heh
I really think you're overestimating scooter, and underestimating Matt
Rowain: Nope If you and I go to war against each other Matt has no easy centers nearby
scooter has
me: im not going to leave myself exposed to scooter
Rowain: you will if you attack me
or if you have to defend against me
me: anyway, Im not going to attack you this year, unless you pick up 2 cores in the south or something really scary, but please consider the possibility of stabbing turkey, im sure Tatan will be desperate enough to let you completely call the terms
(2 cor4es from Austria I mean)
Rowain: I'm considering it I don't like the turkish presence in SEV
me: hehe
Rowain: And I do understand your fears.
me: well thats good enough then, I'll hold off giving you an ultimatum
have you seen TT online in the last week? or do you just email him?
Rowain: till now only email
same with Tatan which makes coodinating a attack on turkey hard
me: im sure he would find a way to get online if he knew that was on the table, lol
I think he's closer to your time zone than me??? I don't remember where he lives
Rowain: I don't know his TZ (and his sleep-wake cycle)
Sent at 7:32 AM on Monday
Rowain: So to prevent any future threads I would like to see SKA free from German fleets
Sent at 7:35 AM on Monday
me: ok, i'll have to figure out the best way to finish off England, so no promises until im sure.. maybe not in spring, but fall
Rowain: well I can support you into NTH if you like
me: anyway, good talk, even if you didn't give me the answer I wanted... good to know you're not gonna let turkey run away the rest of the game anyway
yes, that would be useful, ty
Rowain: Rest asured I don't want anybody to run away Tat does include scooter which is the reason why I'm offering you the help
I have no interest in scooter getting all of England
me: I understand, thanks
I'd like to avoid that too, hehe
Rowain: and no interest in slowing the one big stopping block he has in his way
Sent at 7:40 AM on Monday
Rowain: And I hope I don't have to move my southern forces to hte north/northwest. Send message if you want SKA-NTH supported from Norway
me: I would like that
would also like STP either holding or moving to MOS <g>
Rowain: STP has duty to support Norway just in case
me: oh yeah
ok thats a hold, thats fine
I forgot STP could reach norway
Sent at 7:44 AM on Monday
Rowain: Oh and just to make clear. I'm willing to support SKA-NTH but I expect DEN to do it do No fleet in SKA or BOT
or other shennaningans that threaten russiancenters
Sent at 7:46 AM on Monday

summary: he intends to ally with Italy to stab Matt once Austria is dead, but probably not before that. also offered to support me into NTH. not really sure Ill need the help, but Im not gonna turn it down.

[Bigger]

as for vassalizing England now, I'm not sure I see the point. Even if Scooter agreed (which is a big if), me and scooter both would have to fear england seizing an opportunity to ally with Russia in the future - it would be very hard to demilitarize the lowland countries with english ships running aorund, and since scooter would have to keep a force to defend from an English strike too, I would also have to worry about a French stab.

[Bigger]

brief chat w/ Mattimeo.. not much for us to talk about, we can't really hurt each other or cooperate atm

me: clever turkey
Sent at 12:01 AM on Saturday
me: that was a beautiful stab
Sent at 7:42 AM on Monday
Matt: thanks :P
you look nicely positioned to carve up England shortly
me: well, eventually
heh
England is easier to defend than Austria, unfortunately
do you plan to attack Italy this year, or focus on Austria?
Matt: I think in the short term I have to worry more about italy trying to attack me than going afetr him...
gre is looking awfully extended there
me: yeah I guess so
Matt: though I haven't had any contact with TT since spring '02, so I have no idea what he's up to
me: maybe more so if ALB was a fleet instead of a less threatening army
Sent at 7:48 AM on Monday
Matt: here's hoping he just takes the easy meat and hits Tri
Sent at 7:49 AM on Monday
Matt: I'm a bit surprised that Mun hasn't ventured south to lend Tatan a hand defending, honestly
me: yeah, well, he's probably pretty desperate for a core
although he doesn't have much chance of holding it long term
well, I didn't know he needed a hand until now :P
Matt: ah, point
me: I couldnt have helped him where yall hit him anyway
and I got Italy off his back early
Matt: what, by sending him after me instead?

me: well, honestly.. originally intended to send him against France, but
needed England for that, and Tasunke would have been a worthless ally.. Molach just took over a season too late
Matt: ah, damn
I would also have preferred Italy going west
(mainly 'cause it's easier to slip the knife in if they don't actually have any troops in the relevant location)
Sent at 7:53 AM on Monday

im actually a little less concerned about a strong turkey now that I've had some time to think about it.. sucks that he may be able to eliminate Tatan who could have been a strong ally, but Turkey isn't much of a threat, and we may be able to ally agains Russia in the future.

[waterbat]

hey bigger, i knew you wanted to talk to TT - so when i had the chance, i grabbed him in chat. At first i was just trying to get information on what he would think about our moving to support Austria, but i realized that he would obviously be opposed to such a move - he's trying to grab his piece of Austria. Anyway - he probed about support into VIE.

I sent an email because i kept getting knocked off chat:

Sorry I kept getting pulled from chat or knocked off:

Here is a transcript of our chat. I have included bigger here due to your request for help in the BOH/VIE area.

Have you secured TRI diplomatically? It looks like Turkey could bring forces to bear on that tile in spring or fall as well.

me: Hello TT!
Jack: hey
me: have time for some diplo3?
Jack: a bit, though not sure how much we can do right now
me: yeah - just wanted to check in
Sent at 10:24 AM on Monday
me: bigger wanted to grab you earlier- of course it concerns us that Austria looks to be evaporating so quickly and the board turning half yellow we were hoping to find a way to lend them support
Sent at 10:26 AM on Monday
Jack: how?
me: of course, if you were also promised a few Austrian cores and just werent lucky enough to get one last year - let me know - it won't make sense for us to send an army into Boh or Tyr
Jack: Surely a stronger Italy is good for you btw for your fight against France later
?
Sent at 10:36 AM on Monday
me: sorry got knowcked off chat
yes- a stronger Italy desirable - if you are confident you are going to get a piece of Austria - please let us know and we won't move into that area for support
Sent at 10:44 AM on Monday
Jack: If you would consider moving into BOH to help me into Vie in the fall that would be helpful
Sent at 10:57 AM on Monday

[waterbat]

Scooter also reached out to me.

I brought up the subject about a split of English cores and he rememebered your previous agreement about him getting 2 cores in England and us getting BEL.

9:39 AM
scooter: hey waterbat. so do you guys have help from rowain and norway?
11 minutes
9:51 AM
me: hello scooter

bigger has been in-and-out this morning

i havent had the chance to talk to him

scooter: yeah, didn't see him around, and I wasn't around hardly at all yesterday

me: me either

scooter: ah ok, wasn't sure if you knew whats up
9:52 AM
me: looks like we do have support into NTH from NWY

so, we shouldnt need your assistance with ENG

what do you plan on doing then, direct convoy to LVP?

or WAL safer probably

then move in fall
9:53 AM
scooter: no, i'm planning on nearly guaranteeing lvp falls

so convoy into wales via eng, and order iri-lvp

can't cover both unless he abandons Nth and defends with lon

me: yes - that's what i meant

scooter: yeah, well I mean ordering both this spring

me: safter to convoy into WAL and do IRI ->LVP

scooter: right
9:54 AM
me: i expect he'll move A into LVP and bounce

scooter: if he covers lvp, wal + iri will take it in the fall. if he covers wal, my F is inlvp and can't be dislodged

me: but no big deal

scooter: yeah,which i'd prefer, as i'd rather take lvp with an army

me: yep

scooter: rather not have my fleet parked there for a turn

not that it matters too much, but just annoying

me: what are we to do about spltting 3 cores / 2 ways?
9:55 AM
scooter: i had something worked out with Bigger - I'm going to need to pull up the chat logs

we took the english centers, nwy, bel, etc and split them up in a fair way, and i don't remember it off the top of my head as we had several variations before we agreed
9:56 AM
i think it was something like me handing over belgium and taking 2 english centers

but not sure

me: yes - that is what I remember

scooter: yeah. we were trying to split in the least awkward way possible hah
9:57 AM
rowain sent me a message saying Bigger has basically told him he should attack turkey or Bigger would attack him? or something to the effect. know much about that?

me: Twinkletoes was online for a short ammount today - did you get a chance to diplo with him? It seems austria and turkey also have not engaged with him much at all in the last week

scooter: no i haven't talked to him in a little while now.
9:58 AM
me: maybe Rowain did - as it did appear like it was RI vs AT until the latest stab

possible <shrug>

now the board looks very yellow over there
9:59 AM
scooter: yeah. RT are working together

for the moment anywyas
10:00 AM
me: i was hoping we could both get away with building armies instead of fleets
10:01 AM
the continent is starting to scary for us - you are isolated a big thanks to italy being a buffer

but our buffer will soon evaporate

scooter: this coming winter or this past winter?

me: past
10:02 AM
scooter: i'm not sure where I'd need an army quite yet.

fleet will probably swing into the med, but it can get there just as fast from brest

me: no, you have the luxury of time

scooter: yeah true.

me: no need i mean
10:03 AM
scooter: my thing is i wanted a F into the med... but TT had asked me not to build mar fleets the first 2 years. i agreed in hopes I would get the buffer and I wanted northern fleets anyways

me: yep

scooter: plus, it's not a big commitment since brest and marseilles take italy centers at the same rate

more or less anyways

me: totally makes sense

and he has nothing to blockade the med
10:04 AM
scooter: kind of a sweet deal. been the game maker for me.

me: yep - similar to us with Austria

but - they evaporate, and italy still there

its going to get dicey for us Germans
10:05 AM
scooter: yeah. germany needs armies more than france

me: can you disband at will?

in winter?

scooter: nope. need it to be dislodged

at some point I could probably help you with that if you wanted

me: can you attack (with support) your own unit to dislodge?
10:06 AM
scooter: no can't dislodge your own

i think you can support a dislodge of your own though?

me: saw that as a variant i guess

yes - i see what you mean

you attack, we support

scooter: so if you supported me into a F you wanted disbanded, think that coudl work

i think. would need clarification there

me: im pretty sure i read that was legal

scooter: yeah
10:07 AM
me: Rowain wants us out of SKA

and BAL

with 3 fleets, not going to be many tiles left for us to sit on

so we may need some assistance with the disbanding - will be interesting
10:08 AM
scooter: i don't think he's really in a position to make demands hah. but yeah i know what you mean

me: no, he isn't
10:09 AM
plus he has new ottoman benefactors with whom he can whisiper sweet nothings

scooter: yep
10:12 AM
me: you were going to convoy A BEL then?

or A PIC?
10:13 AM
scooter: probably pic for now

me: k
10:16 AM
hey - would you mind a temporary occupation of Ruh

in spring

moving on in fall
10:19 AM
since we have the problem of too many fleets, im thinking to swap that fleet in KIE for the A in HOL is a good idea

not sure why the game doesnt allow 2 units to trade places if they are of the same country (or team for that matter)
8 minutes
10:28 AM
scooter: i'd be ok with it, but why not kie-hel?

then if you still want the swap, hel-hol and hol-kie in the fall does the same thing
10:29 AM
me: true that HOL space just looks like an ugly place to be
10:30 AM
maybe it won't be so bad in summer

but we definitely don't want to be there in winter

scooter: yeah makes sense. occupying bel and hol is annoying, but we don't want Nth to ever be able to retreat into it or something so as long as eng lives, we don't have much choice
10:31 AM
me: i didnt think about the retreat phase

scooter: yeah. we don't want Nth to have somewhere juicy to retreat into

me: yep

scooter: hel would actually qualify as it borders 3 of your centers

you could defend it but it would be annoying
10:32 AM
me: good point - since retreat in spring is free

scooter: yeah

[waterbat]

yours and Tatan's exchange (for the lurkers):

bigger rb
7:55 AM (3 hours ago)

to Tatan, me
so, if I were to move my Munich army into position in the Spring to help you in the fall, what province would be the most useful? I just sent TT an email probing for his intentions. Russia is a little afraid of Turkey, but my efforts to get him to stab Matt now were probably fruitless (as might be expected, but I had to try). I think he hopes to cooperate with Italy and turn on Matt once you are dead.

Still, I hoipe you are going to try to stay alive as long as possible, and I would like to help you with that.

Tatan Byrd
11:16 AM (14 minutes ago)
to bigger, me

Thank you for that.

I'm currently negotiating with Rowain and TT over how to stab Matt (I can send you the email if you want). Honestly, I estimate about a 60% chance that Rowain plans to backstab, but I have little choice but to trust him.

If you are prepared to move out your Munich army, what about mun -> sil? It puts you into great position to threaten Russia in case he gets out of line, and it comes at minimal cost to yourself (you might even gain some territory ). Thoughts?

-Archduke Tatan