English Never Cry: Tasunke's SPOILER thread

[Molach]

Okay some more incoming mail, this from Waterbat, Bigger's henchman.

Thanks for forwarding it to me, Molachi.



I have been taking your offer of English subordination very seriously. I havent had much time to converse with Bigger, but I am trying to work out a crazy-sounding scenario. It involves you giving up NWY and possibly NTH (if it makes sense) in order for England and Germany to make a glorious 1903 campaign.

Please regard this proposal as completely theoretical - I do not speak for Germany in this regard, but wanted to let you know I am thinking EPIC as you suggested to do

They key to this plan is secrecy and fall moves that don't appear threatening at all. For example, if we were to take NTH, we'd do so under the guise of cutting support into NWY.

We have seen nothing to indicate France and Russia are cooperating tightly, but I agree that the political winds might be shifting.

With regards,

-waterbat

A theoretical proposal. Sounding me out? Well, it is completely unacceptable that I surrender my coasts at a vague promise. This proposal I just read as Germany requesting an easier & faster conquest. I replied with:

I think the time to strike is now. And attacking Sweden gives Germany +1 and Russia -1. If turkey does not support attack into romania this means russia must disband one unit and be left with 4. Germany 7 if belgium operation succeeds. So (in response to earlier mail about difficult situation) I think russia is the one in a difficult situation rather than germany. I again assume austria will not attack germany (at least for a couple years). Italy will probably still be happy to be part of the game and send mabye a unit west while defending/peacekeeping in the east.

I think I offer you better chance of solo win. I think staying with scooter might be safer for a joint win if you can indeed trust him and russia to stay back.

By the way scooter sent a mail, he knows I have been updating my spoiler thread, so he knows I'm doing something and that I'm not talking to him. If you decide to accept, I will send a shared mail to Fra-Ger-Rus wishing you luck with the rest of the game, and say I understand given the Tasunke situation etc. etc. I will also say that I tried to win germany over but that you were too thick-headed to see my view. And that I will, as a consequence, let france and russia in while hindering Germany as much as possible. And the imagine the Epic stab, our ratings will soar!

I also suggest that England has the law on its side. We were attacked.

Yeah. Strike now or forever hold your peace. I include how we are going to proceed if he joins me Justin Case. For fall moves, I think me supporting an attack into sweden and belgium is no big worry at this time, I will probably get booted out of Norway by Rus-Ger forces anyway. The 'let germany into home waters for a really magnificent stab later' proposal would probably lead to instant annihilation if I give support orders while enemies attack.

Scooter chastices me for not replying to his mail:

So you chose to ignore me and only talk to Germany? Why's that?

So I'll reply honestly to that. Lets see. Oh yeah,

Hey scooter and Gaspar.


Sorry for not replying to first mail, that was a bit rude. Or mabye it was (Refuses to talk!!!) because of the war and such. My foreign minister was busy flying back and forth from Berlin and unable to make Paris in time..


Obviously, I've been updating my spoiler thread so something is happening. And I am not talking to you. Yeah, so I must be conferring with turkey and austria, right.


I did a review of the situation I inherited and decided that getting Germany to turn was my best/only realistic chance.

After my demise YOU would be in an excellent position, and even if you DID turn on germany your military was all in wrong places. It would be incredibly stupid for you to ally with England, taking a -hit to relations with everyone for a low-powered assault on Germany. So I chose Germany, and stuck with that choice. All or nothing approach. Even at that, it was a long shot. Backstabbing carries a certain...diplomatic penatly in future negotiations, and we both knew it would be a difficult fight (not as bad as Fra-Eng vs Ger though). I offered that he could grow large while I stayed small so he wouldn't feel as threatened, I offered creative control of my armed forces. And I offered blood, sweat, toil and tears. I said the upcoming fight would be epic and inspiration for many a battle hymn. I made him an offer he couldn't refuse, so if you at some point later on decide to backstab him and prove me right, you may have my blessing (from the beyond).


-M

While Bigger has not replied yet, I am now pretty sure he'll stick with the frogs & borstsjs. Anyway no secret I have been talking to Germany, I expect he told scooter & rowain. Doesn't mean he still couldn't have backstabbed, though.

[Molach]

And one (final?) message to Bigger:

Achtung.

Ive chatted to Russia, and just mailed to France. Basically told them that I tried to talk to you (hardly a secret even if you didn't tell them) and not getting anywhere, and that I'm just preparing for island defense. To russia that I might be annoyed with you for failing to join me that I might help him at your expense, if I am able. And I might in fact do that if it doesn't compromise my defense much. However that might also upset the rest of the game for those southrons, so I am undecided atm.

However it is never too late for the backstab, if you should see the light. I WILL give support orders into sweden and belgium, because I won't be on tonight, and because they don't hurt THAT much, just in case you somehow learn something that may change your mind 10 minutes before orders are due. So with that I bid you good night and good luck.

'May divorce be with you'

(Not sure if you'd like army or fleet or fleet into sweden. I went for army, so

F nwy S A den-> swe and F nth S A hol -> bel are my orders. For security reasons not telling what I'll do with my other two. Also because I don't know yet, have to read up on 'how to defend england 101' first.

-M

Rest of my orders are F lon S F nth (do I need to put more here, want to just support in place?)
and
A wal H(ave some tea).

[Molach]

Okay.
Germany(waterbat):

I see no reason why scooter would not do A PIC SUPPORT BEL HOLD
its a no risk move and he's not going to do anything else with A PIC this turn.
The last thing we want to do is a stab that doesn't actually pierce the skin.

I replied basically that Germany will seize burgundy, which leads to belgian fall next year. (Well, if he does Fleet channel Support Belgium and Army Pic move to Burgundy everything will fail. I'd have to attack his channel fleet from london to cover that contingency but gonna let him suggest that)

I also said that he does not need my support in sweden, so I gonna cancel that order.

And that I need his definite answer 2 hours before deadline tonight, mainly to see if he will be honest or not.

Also sent a thanks-for-the-alliance-proposal and good-luck-to-you note to Italy.

And some (final?) mails with france:

Well that was surprisingly honest. Credit for that. I guess there's not much I can say to you except good luck? I'd probably play things pretty similar to how you have in that situation, so I don't blame you. You got dropped into a weird spot where your predecessor was silent and thus a bit isolated. Anyways, you know how to contact me if things ever change. I can't promise I'd be jumping to accept something, but I'll always listen and consider.

Me:

Thanks for that.

Perhaps if it had been someone else as France I might have tried something, but contacting both of you would wreck my case if one of you told the other, so I had to choose. And after Bigger failed to turn and proved his loyalty it is even less likely you would turn on him.

I was actually starting to believe my own case, and would have been very tempted were I Bigger, hence the "hope you backstab him" line. That'll teach him to backstab when an opprtunity arises, heh.

-M

France:

I honestly don't see how him stabbing me really works. Nothing he can do right now anyways. Hard to see how he could do it without me seeing it a mile away and bringing Russia in to counter it (and really, at 6 centers I could fend off EG by myself for quite awhile). FR vs EG == Turkey win, and the one thing the three of us can all agree on is we don't want that. At any rate, not sure what options that leaves you with this year as he cannot damage me this turn, but he can give himself away if he DOES flip.

We shall see.

This is all academical, but I mildly disagree here. Russia is in no position to counter this, they will be kicked out of sweden, kept out of norway, lose a unit while barely holding on in the south. I agree it willbe laborious taking out france, never said it would be easy. Easy the path to the dark side is. But it would jolly well be better for old England, innit right.

[Molach]

Allright.

For those who wonder (me), I did have a talk with Bigger before fall moves. And he did say he was not gonna make a move against France that fall. So I should have cancelled the support hol-bel move but plain forgot about it. It was very late. Bigger did say that the time was not right to stab now because it would be toothless. Hopefully my support of bigger may contribute to paranoia between Fra and Ger, hopefully ending with backstab against Germany. I so want to say afterwards 'told you to join me'

Bigger told me to keep a door open for a stab this year. It's pretty obvious that is not going to happen, and moves even show that stab last fall would have been strong for Ger-Eng - would in fact have taken belgium, and taking norway from russia was a given. So Germany made his choice. And I still hope he will get overwhelmed later on, although the Fra/Rus stab seems to be less strong now that russia is on the ropes. For all I know they have already decided that Germany will take on russia and france italy after england is dead. So perhaps a 2-2 draw (turkey/austria vs. Ger/france) is in the cards.

I was about to call the French fleet in Brest overkill (vs. me) but just realize it will get to W med threatening tunisia in 2 moves just like A fleet in Marseilles.

I also decided to not hand england to scooter directly and resist germany alone, as it seemed a little petty to do so, just for failing to join me. If I had been backstabbed (say, if he had promised to attack russia and belgium) I would. And then I would have disbanded Army in England, kept fleet in norwegian sea and kept Germany out of north sea one more year.

How to defend is a bit of guessing game. If I leave liverpool open it can be taken and I can not dislodge from there. However an army landed in wales will be able to force liverpool in fall anyway. I am new at the game, so scooter may be more likely to think I'll just go to liverpool and ignore wales for having no centre, so I might move army to wales with support from london or vice versa, which will beat army landing with support.

Must try to find a way that might save all 3 centres but can at least guarantee 2 centres.

[Molach]

Sent a mail to Germany suggesting he backstab this spring as well, and that I'll support into belgium again.

So I suppose I should post a bit in this thraed, just to make France a bit nervous.

[Molach]

Aaand guessed wrong. Most likely loosing london this fall as well.

[Molach]

Hi fans.

Wow, seems like France backed out of England and attacked Germany! Wow.

Well it was no big surprise, but decided to not update this thread so as not to give anything away.

Scooter sent this:

Hey Molach. In continuing with our emails being pretty straight to the point - here's a weird but serious question for you. Would you rather just be eliminated quickly given your position where you can't really win, or would you be receptive to proposals that meant you got to survive for longer? Completely serious question - I really don't know what you would prefer.

Which after a bit back and forth resulted in

Basically, I'm pretty sure you can keep Germany out of Nth by supporting yourself into Nth. He's wanting my support to get into there, and I'm not going to give it to him this time. I'd recommend Lon-Nth with Edi's support, as I'm pretty sure he wants to move Nwy-Nwg and then get me to help him into Nth so he can take Edi in the fall. So in this case you'd have Edi covered and you'd bounce the Nth. So yeah, basically support yourself into Nth. You'll see that I'll convoy Wales into Belgium and leave you alone.

I will do all I can to ensure you outlive Germany in return for your continued help. I won't promise more than I can deliver so I can't promise more than that, but assuming things go as planned on my front with him, there's no way he'll be taking your centers anytime soon... Specifically, I mostly want a buffer in the northern water from Germany (where he can match me) while I significantly hurt him on land where he can't match me. Once I do that, he'll have to delete some of those fleets, and things will get much easier in the north.

So yeah he was right, England is now safe (from germany), and there are 4 Eng/Fra fleets facing 3 German in the northern waters.

So in short, I helped France backstab Germany in trade for short-term survival. And I suppose it is likely that france will go on to win the game solo, at least there is a greater chance of something else than me being dead in fall. Perhaps it ends in a draw with england. Perhaps the rest of the world joins hands, sings cumbaya and moves against the french.

So I ally with france for now until Germany is dead. I will try to snag my home centre back when germany is weakened and take it from there.

[Tasunke]

Well, I am happy that England was able to survive despite me

One of these days I'd like to play a game (well, other than werewolf) from start to finish ... (maybe when I get out of grad school? )

Hmm... probably when my son is old enough to play my turns for me, heh