[SPOILERS] The Kaiser Strikes back! A Bigger Germany is better

[Bigger]

on molach: Im going to email him, probing if he's interested in being a spy. I'll promise him what I can - after we turn the tides on scooter, he gets lvp back, BRE, NWY, and iberia if he can beat italy (OR STP if he prefers to attack russia). but maybe he can't stab him this turn, but he can spy for me in the mean time - i.e. let me know moves planned. Not sure if molach will be at all interested but doesnt hurt to ask.

on Rowain: Rowain is pretty up front, not much on deception. For instance, Matt told me that Rowain told him flat out he wanted to stab him with Tatan, but Tatan wasn't on enough to coordinate and he didn't feel it would work without knowing the others moves. I have no idea what possessed Rowain to confess that to Matt, but that is not the personality of someone who is going to tell you one thing and do the other.
Given that, we need to get him on our side. technically, I could also keep all of scandanavia this turn (army to sweden fleet to NWY). not sure its worth it tho??? that army in NWY is worthless anyway atm. the downside to giving back to rowain, of course, isn't what I lose but what he does with the extra gain. hopefully he'll build a fleet on north side of STP .

ill consider asking him if I can give him NWY next year, I dunno.

[Bigger]

email to TT

Hey, I need a favor. would it be possible for you to attack TYR with your VEN unit this turn, cutting scooters support into MUN?

this is probably the only way I can hold it this turn.I think you realize the danger of scooter holding MUN and TYR - he has a lot of control over austrias and italian lands from there. Also, if he gets a build this turn (which I am pretty sure I can prevent with your help) - it is almost certainly going in MAR - he doesnt have room to get another unit through in the north.

In return, I offer:

1. a permanent alliance - well, until you stab me . Or at least until we are down to 3-4 players.
2. I'll owe you a favor, to be redeemed when you need it. from MUN I can get into tyr (or support you into tyr, whichever you prefer) and help you retake austria lands (which I have no interest in myself, I want french lands, hehe).
3. I will try my best to negotiate a cease-fire/peace deal for you with Turkey. eventually he will want to turn north and start war with Rowain, especially if it becomes easier than fighting you. I know that Rowain is at least making him nervous atm.

I understand if you have other plans for the VEN army, I hope you will take my offer, but if not, please let me know. I can't afford surprises this turn.

it occurs to me he might refuse, instead opting to support tatan into TRI. if so, I think I'll still attempt to defend MUN, only I might have to consider moving from HEL into HOL instead of support-holding.

[Bigger]

convo with molach:

Jamas: A few, yes.
me: heh
so let me ask you, if the opportunity arose, say next year or the following, for you to stab scooter and ally with me, would you be interested? Or are you too annoyed with me for not turning on scooter earlier?
Jamas: Im not annoyed, but honorable.
me: not sure if thats a yes or a no, heh
Jamas: No.... I think
For now
me: well I didn't mean now anyway. you aren't really in a position to do anything except what he tells you too.
Jamas: Who knows what future brings, I was gonna die this fall so had to join.
There might be disagreement about ownership of the 3 england centres in the future
If a casus belli rises then mabye. But planning to play more of these games, and need to think of my reputation.
me: bah, the next game won't be till next summer probably :P
and more importantly, you're expected to make moves to better yourself in diplomacy, just don't tell outright lies
Jamas: Right. England prevails shall be my guiding star
Sent at 4:40 AM on Wednesday
me: well, anyway, until the situation changes... If scooter manages to eat up germany, or even most of it.. I don't see how you could ever have more than the 2 cores you do have now. and eventually he'll have a fleet with nothing to do and just finish you off.... so, if you ever have any info on his moves that would be useful to me and help me survive, I would appreciate you discretely slipping that to me
up to you I guess, heh. But it seems mutually beneficial to me.
also, im going to be evactuating scanadanavia soon, so I hope you can get to NWY before scooter
Jamas: Okay.
I only know what I'm supposed to do. And not in a position to share that now. Pretty obvious, I'd say. And orders may change at short notice too.
Sent at 4:44 AM on Wednesday
me: yeah, I figure you're supporting scooter into nth. or else he wants to stay in ENG and is supporting you
Jamas: Well, good luck raising the world against Napoleon. For today and probably next year I'm tied down.
me: lol, ok ok

well, not even close to as cooperative as I would have hoped. Really, "honor" as a vassal/slave state is absurd. If I was in his sport I would be doing everything I could to support the weaker of Germany/France, hoping for a small opening - including spying. Hasn't anyone read the Prince? .

ah well, we'll keep working on that in the coming years.

[Bigger]

another thought I had: perhaps it would be better to risk losing HOL in order to try and keep some control of the seas. After my convo with molach, Im pretty sure scooter will make him stay in his cores and not give him any control. i.e., he will be supporting scooter, not being supported. so... I could attack edi with my NWG fleet, cutting that support. if im lucky, edi is supporting nao into NWG, and my attack will prevent that.

what to do with HEL and DEN tho? DO I risk possibly losing HEL and KIE to keep nth empty?

[waterbat]

great job with the diplo Bigger. We really need to get TT on board with us tightly if we wish to survive. If its going to be 2v2v2 and we will certainly be the lowest of the teams, but Germany will have some shot at survival. 3v2v1 or 2v1v2 (when TT is eliminated) won't bode well for us.


I would suggest we make more concessions to TT - not just ask him for his favor - but ask him for full alliance - we need his help for now.

I think the molach conversation went exactly how I expected it would. He offered the same to us (honorable submission) and we declined - no doubt he's going to play out the same way.

My initial thought was that we should risk losing KIE to keep them out of NTH - i was thinking the same thing last night (we appear to be on different sleep schedules again ).

Did we promise Rowain SWE already? If so - we have a couple of options as we don't have to defend it. i think attacking edi and trying to keep NTH clear is one of those options.

I dont think we should risk losing HOL though. KIE seems more of a safe play -i.e. it would be unlikely he is going to move into it.

MUN looks hopeless - even with TT's help, he could be consolidating forces and moving TYR into MUN. i guess that means TT could help us take it back perhaps - but that's another reason we need a stronger alliacne with him.

[waterbat]

oh - i won't comment on the WW talk - already got my hand smacked for mixing games

[Bigger]

oh - i won't comment on the WW talk - already got my hand smacked for mixing games

yer not the only one - I had to scold mattimeo for that in our chat too, lol. anyway I play each game to win within the game, I wouldnt like the overlap even if it was allowed.

as for HOL, how do we protect is and keep NTH neutral? The only way to protect HOL is to either support or move in from HEL. DEN and NWG will not be able to hold nth alone - surely ENG is moving in and both english units are supporting?

as for TT, I did indeed promise him an alliance. Sadly, no response yet . running out of time.

[Bigger]

me: hey
Sent at 5:49 AM on Tuesday
me: got a sec?
Twinkletoes89: not long but go on
me: oh
I was just curious if you knew scooter was going to stab me.. if you had worked a deal with him or just saw it happen
Twinkletoes89: Not a clue, if I had I would have moved Alb to Tri rather than retreat it
I was expecting a move into TUN and TUS or Ven
me: yeah, seems like scooter shoulda give you a heads u at last minute so you could slow down turkey
yeah me too <G>
Sent at 6:23 PM on Tuesday
me: hmm, ok. well if the opportunity comes up for you to move into TYR, pls take it. I guess I'll send you and email later with some thoughts if you have to jet soon
Twinkletoes89: yeah an email may be better - may not have too much free time before the deadline as its degree results day tomorrow for my other half
me: oh cool
good luck TT's wife!
Twinkletoes89: thanks - hopefully she shan't need it
anyhoo, I'd best be off. Shall look forward to reading your email when I can
me: k ttyl
Sent at 6:27 PM on Tuesday
me: online?
Sent at 4:14 AM on Wednesday
Twinkletoes89: On my phone
me: k, would email be easier or chat?
Sent at 4:19 AM on Wednesday
me: hey there, congrats to the wife
Twinkletoes89: thanks
me: what time zone are you in again?
Twinkletoes89: BST
me: ah, so its what, 10 pm there?
Twinkletoes89: so its 23.14 now
me: ok, close :P
so did you get a chance to read my email?
Twinkletoes89: looking now
me: l, ill give you a few then
Twinkletoes89: kk
Sent at 6:15 PM on Wednesday
Twinkletoes89: I'm not sure where helping you with Tyr gets me in terms of expansion
me: can you expand at all, this season?
Twinkletoes89: possibly
me: unless turkey is suddenly helping you
Sent at 6:22 PM on Wednesday
Twinkletoes89: plus I piss off france for no gain at all
who, with all respect, is in a stronger position than you
me: he was moving towards venice one season ago :P
Twinkletoes89: he wasn't
me: sure, he's going to be strong enough to mop you up at will in a couple of years if I fall
oh, I thought you said you didn't know he was going after me? it doesnt matter, I wouldnt have blamed you for not telling me if you did, considering
Twinkletoes89: I had no choice - I tell you, he kills me
I don't, he kills you (possibly)
me: and hope he isn't lying to you, I get it - thats fine
don't blame you
Twinkletoes89: Wish you'd stabbed him earlier when I encouraged you to?
me: heh, yes
I wish molach had appeared a season earlier
Twinkletoes89: me too
me: anyway you're welcome to the same I told you so's as Rowain, I won't begrudge you that
Sent at 6:27 PM on Wednesday
me: anyway, I really think I can hold if you cut tyr, and Rowain seems willing to help. scooter can't hurt you anyway unless he kills me first, and in case you're in trouble if it comes to that. or do you think you can hold off france and turkey?
Twinkletoes89: Problem is, france needs me more than Turkey does
me: I was just thinking, long term, a strong ally thats willing to return the favor would benefit you
in the short term, he needs you to slow down turkey and not hinder his attack on me
Twinkletoes89: yes but will you ever be in a position to return that favour?
me: if I hold MUN, yes. lets face it tatan doesnt have many seasons left, I can help you expand into his lands
(former)
Twinkletoes89: There won't be any left in my opinion
I bet juggernaut supports Turkey into Tri thisseason
me: well, there won't be any empty, we'll have to repel turkish units
Twinkletoes89: then I can't hit Vie
and I have no fleet superiority
me: well, im praying they turn on each other at some point... neither of them trusts the other completely
Twinkletoes89: i think they do
I think they are just acting otherwise
me: maybe
Twinkletoes89: if they didn't, Sev would have gone by now
me: I coulda crushed russia if scooter didn't stab me :/
Twinkletoes89: We coulda crushed France if you'd joined me
me: yeah I know
heh
Sent at 6:35 PM on Wednesday
me: anyway, I just figured it would be nice to have an ally, we're the only ones without a solid one atm (well tatan, but he's on life support).. would be a fight, sure, but we have a better chance togethor than alone
Twinkletoes89: It would be nice to ally, but I just don't see it giving me much in the long run, and scooter has kept to every agreement I have had with him
and he can protect me more from Turkey
me: ok, well good luck
thanks for not lying to me, better to know where the helps not coming than to expect it when it aint there
Twinkletoes89: true - its a shame things worked out this way
me: yah

yeah, so TT isn't helping. at least he was honest with me. any chance yer gonna be on chat before the deadline?

[Tasunke]

go kick some french arse!

[Bigger]

go kick some french arse!

hehe I take it your not ded-lurking Molach?

welcome back, I was wondering where you disappeared too