The Kuriotates: A Tale of Centaurs, Hubris, and Unbridled Enthusiasm

[Mardoc]

Another option to consider: what about replacing fishing/MftD by Deception? Esus hasn't been founded yet, so we might be able to grab ourselves another holy city (for whatever that's worth; I guess Nox Noctis isn't very strong in EitB?) It's a bigger beaker investment, but it might be worthwhile to be in Esus later once we research warhorses. On the other hand, we'll want fishing at some point anyway, so we can extract seafood and pearls from our conquest of Thoth.

On balance, I'm not really a fan of the idea. Nox is oscillating in value as Sareln tries different approaches to fix it, but I think it's not worth much in v8, anyway. Just Shadow mana and gold per Nox city. And we're a long ways away from being able to make use of Shadowriders.

I'd rather save the beakers now and take the cheap religion, and if we change our mind later, it'll be when we've a lot more beakers to spare. Too many other techs we could use instantly that I want yesterday (like, oh, Engineering ).

[Commodore]

Well, the biggest issue there too is that the forge takes so long for me to build that it only shaves a few turns off the GE. Can always live dangerously and try to run a couple priest turns...

[HidingKneel]

Well, the biggest issue there too is that the forge takes so long for me to build that it only shaves a few turns off the GE. Can always live dangerously and try to run a couple priest turns...

Could be more than a few. Let's say you can build that forge in 20 turns.
At that point you've got 20 more GPP until the engineer, and suddenly you're bringing in 5 instead of 2. That means Eurabatres (and Valkyries, and Immortals) six turns earlier. Building a temple of Order and then confessors, you'll get 1 confessor out in the same timeframe. Sacrificing one military unit to get Eurabatres six turns earlier sounds like a good deal to me. And the sooner you can get that forge built, the better a deal it is: fifteen turn forge means the dragon arrives nine turns earlier.

[Mardoc]

If we really want to be rushing toward Divine Essence above all...and I'll admit, that could be profitable...we shouldn't be hand building a Forge anyway. *That* is a proper use for the cash rush that will be enabled as soon as we get Commodore revolted into Military State.

I had thought the previous plan was for efficiency, not turn speed. But if speed's the goal - let's go for speed.

[HidingKneel]

If we really want to be rushing toward Divine Essence above all...and I'll admit, that could be profitable...we shouldn't be hand building a Forge anyway. *That* is a proper use for the cash rush that will be enabled as soon as we get Commodore revolted into Military State.

I had thought the previous plan was for efficiency, not turn speed. But if speed's the goal - let's go for speed.

Yes, that's absolutely what we should do. Inefficient if we're going to build the Guild of Hammers later (as is the current build of forge in Avelorn, but nevermind). But if we get on the ball, we can have that second tower built the turn after the first. (Around turn 110? Maybe a little later?) We'll want to get that forge reasonably soon (turn 100 at the latest, but the sooner we get it the longer we'll benefit from it). Which means we'll need Commodore to revolt soonish. Something like: KotE/divination/cartography.
We go 0% science, Commodore revolts, then Commodore buys forge and we tech Honor.

[Mardoc]

(as is the current build of forge in Avelorn, but nevermind)

Actually, maybe not. That forge will be worth something like 8hpt, pays for itself in 21 turns. Maybe sooner if we can find Avelorn some more base hammers. If we're going directly for Divine Essence (and hence delaying the guild), I doubt we'll have the Guild in 21 turns. There's a fair chance we won't have it at all (until Eurabatres takes it, that is). And now that we've put some hammers into the forge, I definitely wouldn't cancel the build.

Granted, I wouldn't build a forge in Naggarond .

Edit:

We go 0% science, Commodore revolts, then Commodore buys forge and we tech Honor.

The 0% science part may not be necessary either, so long as Commodore keeps his cash instead of shipping it to us. I'm pretty sure rush buy is 2 gold/hammer, so long as you don't do it the first turn, which means he'll require only ~300 gold. Which he'll be at by the time we've gotten to Carto, unless we hit that emergency need for paladins, anyway. 30 gold/turn plus conquest money ought to add up pretty quickly.

[HidingKneel]

According to Google (and consistent with info I get from mouseover)
the cost is 3 gold/hammer. Multiplied by 2 for a wonder and 1.5 for a national wonder, and a further 1.5 if you haven't yet put any hammers into the build at all. So a forge should be around 500 gold, provided that we sink at least one turn into building it beforehand.

[Commodore]

Ruh-oh. So that ally culture thing? It doesn't respect the Kurios.



Also ruh-oh. We got fast tigers on the flanks.



Can we please just take care of Bob? We need to have more border patrolling.

[HidingKneel]

New turn in.

As Commodore noted, we're fighting a culture war:



Those are two nice tiles: a 7-food farm, and a grasslands village. They're now in Mercurian culture, but not in range to be worked by any Mercurian cities. And can't be worked by us anymore... anybody know if they're going to stay like that? Or if there's some fix? (The mouseover says it's 99% Kuriotate culture.)

So, down south, a barbarian archer wandered out of Domir. So I made an attack of opportunity:



That centaur now has two free promotions. Next turn I'll promote to mobility II and send him back to keep an eye on Bob.

Speaking of which:

Can we please just take care of Bob? We need to have more border patrolling.

Right now? I doubt it. Seven super units fortified in a city, on hell terrain, along with a handful of iron longbows and diseased corpses? Our top stack defenders would be paladins and he'd be able to hit us first with Beasts of Agares. If he sees us coming he'll surely build a rust imp, so our best units would be strength 11. With the Mercurian worldspell we might have a chance... but if we try and fail, we'll be in a terrible position.

We need to build ourselves an army first. Confessors for bless, adepts to sanctify. Some form of collateral. And tons of Mercurian grunts, to screen our important units.

But you're right that we need to watch our other borders. I'm keeping centaurs on all Kuriotate workers, so Ilios doesn't get a chance to snatch them with that tiger.

Speaking of Ilios, we've got some competition:



I don't remember seeing those borders last turn, so that might be a new plant. Anyway, I think we're going to want some defenders in that new city. Good thing Kilmorph's Kith is just about ready.

Oh, Commodore: your acolyte is still headed to Kwythellar. But Kwythellar's build queue is full for the immediate future. Could you instead take the acolyte you just got from Lugus's (or Lugus', if you prefer :neenernee)
and send it to Avelorn instead (or in addition)? It should be able to get there just as the forge finishes.

So, KotE came in at end of turn. And our tech rate keeps going up. Divination is only a two-turn tech at breakeven science. But it'll take three turns to get an adept out. So we've got a turn of tech to spare. Want cartography next?

[HidingKneel]

Oh, and here's something weird: the AC dropped from 34 to 30. I'm guessing that means Bob is rebuilding his beasts so they can start with two promotions.
Which will make him even scarier. And if he manages to get mobility promotions? Downright terrifying. Hurry back with Basium after you capture Deluoc... I have a feeling we might be needing him soon.