The Kuriotates: A Tale of Centaurs, Hubris, and Unbridled Enthusiasm

[Mardoc]

And if Ilios takes Avelorn this turn, I'll eat my hat .

Looks like your hat is safe. I don't see any combat in the log, nor any sign of Ilios. Which means either he decided to delete everything to prevent us gaining the XP, or he moved to here. I don't see any other options, even for a stack of three movers.



I'm honestly not sure what we should do. One possibility would be to move Basium to 1SW of them, to cover the Chargers who come roaring out to kill everything we can. Priests are guarding the stack, after all, which means we can get real damage in. Knock their numbers down enough, and he can't kill through Basium in time to get an even hammer exchange.

But - most of the Chargers are wounded and Exhausted, so we probably couldn't actually do that much damage. Next possibility, therefore, is to redeploy, move our troops back northward in case he goes for Amatheon's Alms next. And go back to building, for the most part.

Unfortunately, I don't feel very comfortable going after Thoth unless we can shred that stack, or leave enough troops behind to handle it. Which is probably something on the order of 15-20 Axemen/Crusaders/Angels and a couple Paladins or Basium. And we also need four Paladins/Basium left behind to handle Bob's next wave. I suppose if the Angels stick with mass production of troops, and keep their Paladins and Basium home, they can amass enough to be safe - we're at 4 Paladins, 1 Basium, 8 Angels, 2 Axemen and 1 Crusader - and can add 1.5 Axes and a Crusader every turn. So we could get to a stack that can oppose Ilios' stack in just a couple more turns, so long as we have good Hawk coverage and finish building our military road network.

Then the Kurio Paladins plus Valin plus Chargers could go for Thoth.

Or, alternately, leave the Kurio Paladins at home and send the Angelic ones out to find combat. Since the Kurio Paladins are better suited to opposing the Beasts.

[HidingKneel]

Some thoughts:

I don't feel like it's too dangerous going for Thoth with the chargers. They can get back in a hurry, and it's really Basium+paladins which are holding the line.
But we need a turn to heal (and get buffed by the adept) anyhow. I say we keep an eye out with hawks and send a force down south after one turn. Mostly chargers, with a paladin or two for stack defense and an acokyte for order spreads.

Looks like Thoth pillaged two towns on his way out. Think Basium could move to the iron to cover some workers? Ilios could slam som PoLs into him, but it'd be suicide even if they managed to kill him.

Meanwhile, let's get back to building for the most part. Let's finish teching honor, resume the
ToD in Avelorn. Naggarond can build hawks, Amatheon's can grow, and Kwythellar and other Mercurian cities can keep pumping units.

[Mardoc]

Some thoughts:

I don't feel like it's too dangerous going for Thoth with the chargers. They can get back in a hurry, and it's really Basium+paladins which are holding the line.
But we need a turn to heal (and get buffed by the adept) anyhow. I say we keep an eye out with hawks and send a force down south after one turn. Mostly chargers, with a paladin or two for stack defense and an acokyte for order spreads.

Alright, that works. What fraction of those should be Angelic units?

The other alternative that comes to mind, is that Chargers + angelic WS ought to be sufficient to handle Cauldron Lake. Especially if we added in a couple combat workers, to bring Basium and Valin along.

Looks like Thoth pillaged two towns on his way out. Think Basium could move to the iron to cover some workers? Ilios could slam som PoLs into him, but it'd be suicide even if they managed to kill him.

So long as you build the roads first! If Basium is on roads, he can react to whatever happens - if he's stuck in wilderness, not so much.

Along those lines - we need lots of roads and Kurio improvements right now; I think Angels are going to be stagnating and pushing out units for a while so it's less important to get new tiles improved on their end. Except for, maybe, Uddrur and any conquests given to the Angels. But again, roads!

I guess the question of paving over the town for an iron mine has been answered for us . Mine all the way.

Meanwhile, let's get back to building for the most part. Let's finish teching honor, resume the
ToD in Avelorn. Naggarond can build hawks, Amatheon's can grow, and Kwythellar and other Mercurian cities can keep pumping units.

Mostly agree. So long as you don't go full Farmer's Gambit on me! We just saw about half of Ilios' army, we've got to keep building too therefore.

[HidingKneel]

Let's see: how about sending the paladin presently in Avelorn north ( for iron), and the 1-mover south (for experience). That paladin and Valin can be the Mercurian contribution to our move on Thoth (with the paladin maybe arriving late).

No worries on the farmer's gambit; I've been scared straight In near future we should tech military strategy, put a heroic epic in supercity, and 1-turn expensive units ad infinitum.

[Mardoc]

Let's see: how about sending the paladin presently in Avelorn north ( for iron), and the 1-mover south (for experience). That paladin and Valin can be the Mercurian contribution to our move on Thoth (with the paladin maybe arriving late).

Well, seeing as I already played the turn - I did two of those three. Didn't think to send the 1-mover south, but that's a good idea. He needs a mobility promotion! Or to die and be rebuilt with one, that would be ok too.

I've started rotating units into Kilmorph's for Bless + Shield, then up toward the border. Planning to keep that up until we've a very solid garrison up there.

No worries on the farmer's gambit; I've been scared straight In near future we should tech military strategy, put a heroic epic in supercity, and 1-turn expensive units ad infinitum.

Soonish. I think it should be Avelorn that gets the Epic, so not until post-Tower.

[HidingKneel]

Alright, turn 106 played.

First, a screenshot from the Basium turn:



That's our vision on Plako. Looks like he isn't making any moves in our direction yet, but he's got an uncomfortably large number of mages.
Let's get ourselves that magic immune dragon.

On the Kuriotate turn I did another flyover to the east:



Doesn't look like Ilios is coming at us from that direction, at least for the moment.

Mardoc, your suggestion here looked a little dangerous:



A road there is a good idea, but Bob has 3-movers and potentially a 5-move Rosier, so I don't want to risk putting workers so close to the border without protection. I sent them northeast instead: Amatheon's borders are going to pop next turn, and it could use a little worker love.

Meanwhile, I moved three workers onto that iron tile that Basium's covering (which Ilios can't actually hit with his priests, but could hit with his 5-move horsement). Didn't have the movement to build anything this turn, but I'll road it next turn and build a mine the turn after.

Turned tech back on and landed Honor at end of turn. Empyrean landed in Naggarond, surprisingly:



Guess I'll send that ecclesiastic to Kwythellar.

Adept gave courage to the stack in Avelorn, so it'll be fully healed next turn. Acolyte is bound for Uddrur to spread Order there (I'll be revolting to Empyrean very soon). I'm thinking the chargers and two Kuriotate paladins will start towards Thoth next turn.

Builds: Tower of Divination in Avelorn (6 turns to completion)
Hawk in Naggarond (we're wasting production, but I think we need them immediately. No more surprises; I want eyes on everyone ASAP.)
Confessor in Kwythellar.

The great engineer is due at the end of Basium's turn 109. If we cash-rush our tower for around 650 gold, we could finish both towers on turn 110. Or we could wait two turns and finish both on turn 112.

A better use for that gold might be to run 100% science for a little while. We could get mathematics and taxation done in the next six turns. Then on turn 113 we revolt to republic, foreign trade, and start building a grove and a dragon.

[Mist]

So, now that you played a while and have a very good idea of what it looks like. What do you think about the map?

[Mardoc]

That's our vision on Plako. Looks like he isn't making any moves in our direction yet, but he's got an uncomfortably large number of mages.
Let's get ourselves that magic immune dragon.

Not that I want to slow the Dragon - but we could handle this with a Hawk plus a bunch of Centaur chargers. Just gotta make sure we get the first strike, that's all.

Mardoc, your suggestion here looked a little dangerous:

A road there is a good idea, but Bob has 3-movers and potentially a 5-move Rosier, so I don't want to risk putting workers so close to the border without protection. I sent them northeast instead: Amatheon's borders are going to pop next turn, and it could use a little worker love.

Granted, it's not super-urgent. I just want to get that road built early enough that Bob has a chance to stop being paranoid, before we use it and combat workers to hit him in one turn from our borders. Probably repeat it to the west somewhere. For that matter, I want roads to all our borders; we might have been able to save Lugus' if the Paladins had been on roads and had a direct path to it.

Position Paladins appropriately for revenge, and we might even have an opportunity to trade 2 workers for a Rosier .

Meanwhile, I moved three workers onto that iron tile that Basium's covering (which Ilios can't actually hit with his priests, but could hit with his 5-move horsement). Didn't have the movement to build anything this turn, but I'll road it next turn and build a mine the turn after.

Actually - he could hit it with his priests, by using the road in neutral territory. Given that he pillaged the towns to nothing - I suspect his horsemen weren't able to run away and were deleted.

Guess I'll send that ecclesiastic to Kwythellar.

Sounds good. We're within just a few turns of potentially having druids, I'd suggest having Kwythellar hurry up and build some Empy priests. Maybe a couple Rathas, too.

Adept gave courage to the stack in Avelorn, so it'll be fully healed next turn.

So where do you want to set up our buff-factory(ies)? We've got two Adept spells and Bless and Shield of Faith to give to every unit, right?

Acolyte is bound for Uddrur to spread Order there (I'll be revolting to Empyrean very soon). I'm thinking the chargers and two Kuriotate paladins will start towards Thoth next turn.

Ok. I'll slide an acolyte or two into a build queue somewhere for converting the new acquisitions. And get Valin plus the Paladin moving next turn.

Builds: Tower of Divination in Avelorn (6 turns to completion)
Hawk in Naggarond (we're wasting production, but I think we need them immediately. No more surprises; I want eyes on everyone ASAP.)
Confessor in Kwythellar.

I see at least four directions I want Hawk flights ASAP, yes . I want to keep eyes on Ilio's stack, I want a flight westward, a flight into Thoth's territory to confirm he hasn't got any surprises for us, and a flight into Bob-land to judge ETA on the next Beasts (or, if he decides we're chicken and stops garrisoning, to let us know so we can charge).

Or, maybe five, actually. I'd also like to finish scouting, especially to the SW, to see if we can build some Basium cities down there or we'll just hit the same issue as in ex-Selrahcia.

That said - we need some Hunters, too. Both to take the Hawks to our borders and gain another turn of warning, and to go with our heroic conquerors. So that'd be my suggestion for best alternating build with Hawks.

The great engineer is due at the end of Basium's turn 109. If we cash-rush our tower for around 650 gold, we could finish both towers on turn 110. Or we could wait two turns and finish both on turn 112.

A better use for that gold might be to run 100% science for a little while. We could get mathematics and taxation done in the next six turns. Then on turn 113 we revolt to republic, foreign trade, and start building a grove and a dragon.

No point in rushing the tower. Might be worth saving up to rush the grove and the dragon - but I think you've picked a better target. At this point, Republic ought to be worth a heck of a lot, including spreading the hammers out nicely.

Or finishing upgrading all our centaurs. Or research MilStrat for the Epic, and Archery -> Stirrups to have a solid use for the Epic. Too many good uses!

Also - 6 turns? You should check with Sareln and/or T-Hawk about getting our techs hacked in. I suspect that'll go much more smoothly if they have advance notice. Particularly since it'll be two in quick succession.

So, now that you played a while and have a very good idea of what it looks like. What do you think about the map?

On balance, I like it. I'm a strong fan of the use of Remnants/Dragon Bones/etc in place of bonus resources, and resources for early commerce instead of rivers.

That said, it's very health-constrained. I haven't seen a single rice or pig, and only the one deer.

And - it's incredibly biased toward cottage economies. That's probably the one angle I don't like, that Kurios get a natural advantage because the map requires the path they'd want anyway. At least in EitB, I don't think aristogarianism is the One Right Path anymore, so that wasn't necessary. The lack of rivers or other barriers, plus Toroidal, also helps the centaur people disproportionately, since we can keep a central reserve to defend any border, or move from one threat axis to another rapidly.

[Mardoc]

Looks like Ilios is going to try for Amatheon's; he's in a sorta-fork position for it and Kilmorph's. I've got a stack of 3 Paladins, 4 Axemen, and 2 Crusaders in a spot where they can reinforce either city in one turn. And I brought Basium up to Kilmorph's, after double checking that Ilio's stack has no horsemen.



Plus, of course, all three cities will continue pumping out units for a while. Add 2 Angels and an axe and whatever's built to Amatheon's count, and 4 Angels and whatever's built to Kilmorph's.

I'm uncertain if this is enough firepower. I think it'll probably do, but I'd appreciate it if you could rotate your adepts northward so that we can get a Wall cast in either city in the event it's necessary. And ideally keep your Paladin in the area.

Please also build a road on the gold. If Ilios moves where I expect him to, a gold road would allow troops to attack out at him.

The Chargers should definitely plan to keep busy. Either head north with the intent on trapping Ilios' stack and hurting it badly, or head down into Lanun lands. I'm not sure which is the higher priority - I'm afraid if we bring everyone north, Ilios will just stand off and taunt, but if we don't it'll be hard to truly hurt him. If you do bring them north, the Cow tile looks like a good central staging location, and that might be far enough out that he misses seeing them with a Hawk flight.

I've got Valin and the slow Pally headed south, in case you want to continue with the invasion. Probably not going to be building an Acolyte any time soon, not until I've got enough axes and crusaders to feel comfortable.

[Commodore]

Sorry I've been out a lot still dedlurking here but I didn't want to take over in the middle of this hot war, but modest proposal: Amatheon is a single turn of a super-city's production (a settler). Losing it isn't a huge deal, maybe get it to size 4 to get two angels from it dying. But, it's lovely bait. I'd feel so much better if we could wipe, or at least shred, that terror-stack. This is a lot of investment, with the recon-line side and everything. Kill this, and we have maybe two whole Beast-invasion cycles until he can return with another.

Sheesh, they're managing a great dogpile.