WW15 - Chiron is a harsh mistress

[Meiz]

Woah, I'll have to make a bigger WoT next time, the competition is hard!
Still digesting, but quick point:

Of course joking back. But why can't he prove his innocence by lynching scum? Yes, yes, it is a joke. But ask yourself as villager, would you write "I can't prove my innocence by lynching scum"? I wouldn't, because a) I can and b) someone might take that - especially on Day 1 - as an invitation to try to lynch me. We have lynched players for less on Day 1 (heck, we lynched them on Day 3 and beyond for less). It just seems for me like a wolf who wanted to start the game with a post he could always point back at and state that a wolf would surely never have started like that.

I believe this is a reference to last game, where he was a wolf and helped to lynch two of his buddies.

[Meiz]

he changed his vote to thestick. I have read his explanation for why he voted thestick instead of Tasunke now several times and it still reads forced to me. Like something he had to come up with to explain his vote, not something he really believes in.

Yes, agree with this. My accusation against Lewwyn's vote (excuse to vote, instead of reason behind a vote) fits well to novice's vote against thestick. Also agree that the vote against Maniac was odd.

Novice and BRickAstley as current bets for Nappers.

[slowcheetah]

I quickly looked back over Zakalwe's posts, because I actually agreed with Novice that he hasn't been driving as much as usual. He seemed more like this in WW14 for the first few days, but that was because he was effectively a multiple mason in that game and could pull strings from there. I doubt Zak is a mason in this game because we've already had Meiz and Tasunke revealed.

Anyhow, I read through all of his posts, and frankly I didn't find much suspicious. No he hasn't been involved as much, but most of the conversation has been revolving around (in my opinion) deadendname speculation that contains to many assumptions to provide anything useful with this many people still alive.

Zak's statements on the name topic seem to indicate to me that he has much the same reaction. It's an interesting sidenote, but not much is gained from it at the minute.


Post 80

Selrahc, if you're somewhat against the name claim, why did you confirm that you don't have a name?

I'm going back and forth on the matter, myself. What exactly do we hope to gain from having everybody claim? If there is nothing to be gained, it stands to reason there could be something to be lost.

In the FFH game, "names are not indicative of alignment" was the spiel, and lots of people claimed their names early, disregarding the fact that names could correlate with abilities. In that game, I had a strong protective role, and my name very much gave that away. Yet people kept pushing for me to claim, and I ended up having to do just that.

Once again, here is what Bigger said about names, emphasis mine:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigger
Role playing is possible for those that choose too - none of the names will give clues to the scumminess of the player, so revealing your name shouldn't help or hurt you stay alive. Having a general knowledge of Alpha Centauri won't really help you catch wolves or fool the village, although it might help you enjoy the game more

Post 134

I figured the "scum don't have names" theory was sufficiently debunked already, so it seemed pointless to add another nameless claim. I agree that it probably isn't a very significant piece of information (then again, who knows).

Post 409

Why? Do you believe someone will come forward and claim to be the Usurper? Why not just let our name seer, if we have one, do his thing?

@Serdoa. We are not "nearly through" with a mass name claim. We have a bunch of "nameless" claims, which isn't going to fly. I believe everybody has a role name, even if it isn't the name of a faction leader. Tasunke's role name was "Thinker". I have something similar. That is, I'm not a faction leader.

If we really do want to proceed with a mass name claim, we should try (quickly) to reach a consensus first, and agree on a rough order in which people should claim. I'm still not convinced there's more to gain than there is to lose. (More than one player is showing reluctance to claim.)

Post 467

Ummm, pretty sure Molach just said he believes Lewwyn? I.e. no third faction; at least not an alien one.

I haven't concluded, myself. I can see where Selrahc is coming from regarding our victory condition. And even if names have no bearing on alignment, that says nothing one way or the other about the number of factions, as far as I can see.
__________________

Additionally his main arguments have made a lot of sense to me. See post 56 on Qgqqqq. Post 144 on Maniac and particularly his latest post Post 506 on Novice and Pindicator.

My one slight cause for concern with Zak is this;

Post 342

Obviously there must be some scum on Tasunke's wagon, but I don't think the lynch was stupid, as such. His wagon got off to a quick start, for what looked to me like genuine reasons. That in itself is a good reason to see it through, on day 1.

That seems like either distancing (wolf) or an attempt to gee up the village (villager).

So to more experienced villagers, are Zakalwe's comments after a mislynch often to boost morale?

[Molach]

Yeah, sorry for the long post. Please read it anyway guys.

I did. Colors helped.

Okay I must have been unclear in explaining my reasoning as several have now complained. It was all very clear in my head. Also some of the posts are written on my phone on the bus which might have contributed. But those from last night (real time) were not.

Did you read my hunch about pindicator?
This:

I think it's a question of who has a stake to lose from catwalk being a live.

Now to properly explain why this leapt out at me, after Catwalk was killed I had a flash of insight and thought it was a kill that might set me up for mislynch. And I thought that a wolf would not openly lead away on the mislynch wagon because when I turned up innocent people would notice who started it. I remembered thinking something like 'lets see who queries about why catwalk was killed without naming names or voting'. So when Pindicator filled this part perfectly, and I even had suspicions on him after day 1 for blending, I am firmly convinced that he is the best lynch today.

Not saying Catwalk was killed purely to mislynch me, he was a decent kill as he has played a bit before while still having low probability of being protected/watched. And mabye they read something in his posting that led them to think he had a powerrole. The mislynch just a bonus.

Pindicator has not responded to this at all. Not even a 'this is madness'

Novice, have been fellow wolf with him twice, and I cannot tell whether he is wolf or not by posting. Always appears the same.

[Meiz]

My one slight cause for concern with Zak is this; Post 342

That seems like either distancing (wolf) or an attempt to gee up the village (villager).

How is the comment distancing from wolves? And why would gee up villagers = villager?

[slowcheetah]

Zak voted Tasunke, and if he himself was a wolf the comment reads to me like a preemptive defense of the bandwagon.

Obviously there must be some scum on Tasunke's wagon, but I don't think the lynch was stupid, as such. His wagon got off to a quick start, for what looked to me like genuine reasons. That in itself is a good reason to see it through, on day 1.

I can see what you mean about geeing up not necessarily meaning village though. I didn't think of a merrywolf leading us down the wrong path as a scenario.

It's only a subtle mistake, and in my opinion isn't worth following up on yet. Others, Pindicator, Selrahc maybe Maniac seem to be better leads. But Zak is a very good player, and since I'd read through the quotes I didn't want to forget about it for later.

[slowcheetah]

How is the comment distancing from wolves? And why would gee up villagers = villager?

Double post. I think distancing with meta is a good way to put it. It reads 'well I might as well have gone along with this bandwagon because it doesn't seem to be led by wolves, even if I personally dont think the player is the guiltiest'.

[zakalwe]

Note: I was almost about to submit this when I got interrupted at work, so it's actually a cross-post with Molach (and several others). Apparently, we agree on Pindicator, but disagree on aesthetic matters. Anyway, now I have to run.

----

Good mega-post, Serdoa, although the color scheme was a bit jarring.

I realize I'm not quite as active here as I sometimes am, but that's perhaps not such a bad thing when there are so many players. I'm actually going away for the weekend, too, so I won't be able to post much more today, and I may miss parts of day 3 as well (if I'm still alive).

This has been mentioned before, but let me add another reason why I'm voting for Pindicator.

Bob, I'm glad someone else is thinking of "why catwalk" question. I think it's a question of who has a stake to lose from catwalk being a live. Will need to re-read his posts and see if something fits.

Regarding Catwalk - I don't have anything concrete. I was going to say the point about veteran players being all wolves, but 1) slowcheetah beat me to that and 2) there are too many vet players for Catwalk to be the "next best" lynch. Someone else said that maybe Catwalk was on to something before it got to be mainstream - certainly possible, but not enough to go hanging someone for yet.

First, he encourages people to look for anyone with a stake to lose from Catwalk being alive. Then, after nothing particularly incriminating comes up, he says that such findings would not be enough to go hanging someone for, anyway. So it looks like he's asking someone else to do his dirty work and dig up some mud, but after deciding that none of it is likely to stick, he subtly distances himself from the effort.

[Meiz]

Zak voted Tasunke, and if he himself was a wolf the comment reads to me like a preemptive defense of the bandwagon.

This I can understand better

I can see what you mean about geeing up not necessarily meaning village though. I didn't think of a merrywolf leading us down the wrong path as a scenario.

I was thinking more like it could as easily be an easy comment for a wolf to subtly state "we're on the same side here" to villagers.

[novice]

Holy wall of text, Serdoa. Let me try to reply in brief. Basically you're saying I'm guilty for posting fluff, and making poorly founded votes, whereas Zakalwe's innocent because we can't expect miracles with scum doing a good job. You say you expect more from me, but I haven't played for the village since WW8, IIRC.

Also, you keep admitting that your previous reasons for voting me are bad (the alien thing (and apparently Selrahc's post which prompted this was never suspicious), and my opening post) and then coming up with new reasons instead.

So yeah. Your case doesn't hold water.