WW16: The Outlaws and The Olives

[Gaspar]

"I would never do that as a wolf" doesn't cut it, Gaspar. When it comes to you, especially, I will judge you by your actions, and not your words. The main reason I defended you yesterday was because I wanted to keep thestick's lynch on track. But looking at your play on day 1, you did an admirable job of supporting Novice and me, thus indirectly supporting thestick's lynch, while never actually stating outright that you suspected him. On the occasions where you could have interjected some more concrete opinions, you let the opportunity pass in favor of making generic low-content posts. (See post 104, in particular.)

Pulling that post out is patently unfair - the follow-up post was a clear read. You can say what you want about my play - my defense has clearly not been up to scratch - but to say I was spraying about low-content posts is just not accurate.

When you finally did comment concretely on thestick, in post 184, your comments can really be read any which way:

You "had some thoughts". Good to know.

My thoughts on thestick lynch were pretty much that I saw what you guys were saying but I didn't want to bite on it directly for 3 reasons:

• Had village reads on both you and novice but don't like what happens when you have too much power. Not to mention a day 1 village read is not a big marker - certainly could be wrong. (I feel much more secure in those village reads after the lynch result, of course.)
  
• Dislike an all eggs in one basket day 1 lynch. You'll recall I had similar reactions to the MNG lynch a few games back. I think multiple strong candidates is best approach to giving info.
  
• I like(d) my Catwalk/Injera theory.
  

Obviously the last minute thing was stupid but I legitimately had lost count and feared Bigger lynch and thought I could get in on time. Obviously given this is the 2nd time this has happened to me, clearly I should just avoid the deadline when I can't get to it fast enough.

I'll have some time this afternoon, to add my thoughts to the unraveling and/or beat back whatever thesticks I'm hit with in the interim. :oldwink:

[zakalwe]

Pulling that post out is patently unfair - the follow-up post was a clear read.

Yes, it was a clear read, but you said you would reread and probably move your vote, and instead you focused on Injera vs. Catwalk after what must have been a lightning quick reread, and didn't comment on thestick, at all.

So yeah, maybe it's unfair, but you would look a lot better now if you had at least commented on thestick at that juncture. That's just the way it is. Plenty of time to redeem yourself, though.

[Azza]

Azza, do you think I would have stuck my neck out for thestick like I did if I knew he was guilty? My argument wasn't based around others being really good targets (Mattimeo a little bit), it was based around not seeing any sensible way for the wolves to let thestick sink so easily. As a wolf, it would have been infinitely smarter to either let him keep sinking or to press another candidate rather than base my case around how likely thestick was to show up townie. If you're arguing I'd make a stupid wolf, I guess I don't have a good counter argument

From my perspective, whether it be right or wrong, your actions make no sense as an innocent. Either you're a wolf, or you're detrimental to the town, and thus should be lynched either way.

yes, but its spelled with a z. theorizing.

I like how I post that you were largely absent from day 1 and you show up within half an hour. Anyway, stick around a little more for day 2 .

Believe it or not, but I was writing that post before I saw yours.

I should post a bit more now that there's a bit more to base the wolf hunting on, but I doubt I'm ever going to be a particularly heavy poster. It's just my natural posting style. Having said that, I haven't played a mafia type game in a long time, so even I don't know with any certainty how into it I'll get.

[Gaspar]

Yes, it was a clear read, but you said you would reread and probably move your vote, and instead you focused on Injera vs. Catwalk after what must have been a lightning quick reread, and didn't comment on thestick, at all.

So yeah, maybe it's unfair, but you would look a lot better now if you had at least commented on thestick at that juncture. That's just the way it is. Plenty of time to redeem yourself, though.

I often intend to do a full reread, but rarely do it. Personal limitation, I guess. I couldn't get the situation out of my craw, which led to me fixating on that rather than doing the reread and changing my thoughts. Anyway, I intentionally avoided thestick because I didn't want to pile on. If that gets me killed in the long run, so be it, but I think 30 or 40 dollops of caution is usually required before giving you the keys to the Camaro. Not even for all of the snarky reasons I often give: Village is better with multiple thinking voices and you're so good at herding cats sometimes we lose that. Worked out well here, won't always.

Anyway, I'll let some others talk and check back later since I suspect there's a decent chance this will be my last opportunity to talk to you, zak.

[zakalwe]

Injera

Waterbat, why did you abandon the thestick wagon just as it was gaining traction?

Also, like Bigger asked at the time, why didn't you vote to save Mattimeo if you thought he was innocent? (post 252)

[Catwalk]

From my perspective, whether it be right or wrong, your actions make no sense as an innocent. Either you're a wolf, or you're detrimental to the town, and thus should be lynched either way.

I'm highly suspicious of this statement, smiley or not. I'm not detrimental to the town because I guessed wrong, felt strongly about it and stuck my neck out to sway opinion. I don't think my arguments were horrible either, just wrong. Copping out of accusations against me with this line looks like you don't really care whether I hang or not, I'm just one mislynch among others to you. Why do my actions make no sense as an innocent? Is it an invalid argument that thestick hung much too easily?

[Azza]

I'm highly suspicious of this statement, smiley or not. I'm not detrimental to the town because I guessed wrong, felt strongly about it and stuck my neck out to sway opinion. I don't think my arguments were horrible either, just wrong. Copping out of accusations against me with this line looks like you don't really care whether I hang or not, I'm just one mislynch among others to you. Why do my actions make no sense as an innocent? Is it an invalid argument that thestick hung much too easily?

Your last minute vote switch off a player who was confirmed to be mafia is too damning for me to ignore.

[zakalwe]

I'm somewhat mollified by that reply, Gaspar. Keep stroking my ego!

Moving on to other suspects.

Matt, I have to admit I was voting on you more to pressure than to lynch. The avalanche of voting that followed is curious. i saw a few people hedging, but you got a lot in a short time there. Wish we hadn't pushed you to roleclaim but it's enough to get me off your back

Thestick's silence is getting more suspicious. Last game he went silent when he had a lot of pressure on him. Later we found out he was talking with Injera in a private thread to get advice on how to defend. Perhaps we have the same thing going on here?

unvote

I want to check some things on another person before I follow that accusation on thestick with a vote.

This is suspicious both for trying to shove the blame for Mattimeo's run on everybody else, and for his "I need to check something first" comment, which smells like wanting time to discuss in the scum thread. He then went on to vote for thestick, which is presumably what the scum would agree to do in the thread. I'm undecided about my overall read on Pindicator, but this post is pretty scummy in isolation.

Next up, Lewwyn. His bedtime post has another suspiciously timed vote, making it Bigger: 3 and thestick: 4. He previously mentioned no suspicion of Bigger, at all, and it's highly unclear why he no longer wanted to lynch thestick (he was voting for him earlier).

That's basically my case against him, as I haven't seen anything specific in his posts elsewhere. But I really think that vote is a blemish on his record.

Finally, Sareln and Uberfish are suspicious for pretty much the obvious reasons. No real need to rehash that. Merovech probably deserves a mention, too.

So yeah... lots of suspects! On the other hand, it's a 26 player game so there's probably lots of wolves, too. I even saved my top suspect for last, but I'll break for lunch before I get into that. Have to build some suspense.

[Catwalk]

You sound as if I should have known that he was mafia. We had a bewildered and inactive player (both turned out to be genuine) who was being attacked massively from all sides with other candidates falling easily. This is very commonly indicatative of a well orchestrated day 1 mislynch. Again, how do my actions not make sense as a townie? You're rapidly developing a habit of responding to counter arguments with one liners.

[Azza]

You sound as if I should have known that he was mafia. We had a bewildered and inactive player (both turned out to be genuine) who was being attacked massively from all sides with other candidates falling easily. This is very commonly indicatative of a well orchestrated day 1 mislynch. Again, how do my actions not make sense as a townie? You're rapidly developing a habit of responding to counter arguments with one liners.

I keep my posts short and sweet, do my best to get straight to the point. So I don't know where you're going with that.


Your actions, taking into account we now know thestick was in fact guilty, look anti-town to me. If it turned out that thestick was innocent, we wouldn't be having this discussion.