WW16: The Outlaws and The Olives

[Tasunke]

Jumping off the stick after a claim is fine. I see that as pretty villagerish behaviour.

True, which is why Merovech and Pindicator aren't that high on the scumdar ... but still potentially scummy.

And I'm not sure that I'd agree that the Bigger BW was simply the result of TheStick's power claim:

I mean, for me personally at least, having been a watcher previously (an alternating nights watcher, btw), I can tell ya that a TWO SHOT watcher? In my mind at least, thats practically worthless. Especially if you "test" the power and ... now you have only 1 shot left >.> ... yea ...

Of course, now we know that he was infact an unlimited watcher (well, 1 per night, anyways), and that he would only have to waste 2 of his nights to look innocent, while the rest of the nights he could use his power to help out the scum.

personally I find both pushes rather scumtelling, especially now that we know that TheStick was scum.

Of course there will be villagers in both, due to reasons you have stated ... but to say that the bigger push was *merely* a "Natural Result" is, in my opinion, either an understatement of scum influence or an overstatement of villager last-minute-switch tendency.

[Lewwyn]

I started going back through everything that I missed while I was asleep. I had skimmed it earlier, but I didn't have much time since Monday's my busy day. But looking back on it now... Just wow. Personally, I don't know how much we can take from everything that went on. There's a lot of chaos in there and its simply not easy to get a good read... yet.

Sareln stuck out to me on the second go round because I reread that bit where he said he was following me (mayor vote + lynch vote), but then after I go to bed while voting Bigger, he first votes for Mattimeo, sees the role claim and then switches over to Bigger. If he really was following me why not go straight to Bigger?

Zak you asked why I chose to leave my vote on Bigger instead of thestick who I'd voted for earlier and expressed suspicion about. I read Injera as innocent and after reading that bit about trying to teach thestick how to play I simply figured that it was worth trusting Injera's read given that he's spent half a game in private thread with him. So I decided to switch off to someone else. For me it was between Qgqqqqqq, Catwalk, and Bigger. In the end I chose Bigger because I couldn't get a solid read, pin and Rowain were on him and well, just because. :neenernee

Arromir voted for thestick midwagon. The thing that bothered me was the Mayor vote for Zak at the same time.

The reason I've avoided posting, and voting, up to this post is because: it's day one, it's my first game, and I do not really know the people involved.

There is a lot of speculation and noise going on, a large portion of which is likely caused by villagers jumping at shadows. Catching up with the tread though, the most suspicious individual for me is thestick and his relative apathy to his lynch count. All I have to go on is how I'd act in such a situation, and I'd certainly be a bit more proactive if a was a villager. So thestick it is, and hopefully it pays off.

On our mayoral candidates, I suppose [COLOR="Cyan"]zakalwe [/COLOR] is a lock at this point regardless, but might as well vote.

Yes he's new. But no free passes given our track record in these games with first time players being wolves: Pling, Commodore, Pindicator, Slowcheetah, Diamondeye from WW7 and I believe that was Xenin's first game also as scum, Bruindane going back to WW3. I'm sure there's more but hopefully point made. Day 1 is over.


I should have simply voted Catwalk instead of Bigger before going to bed. I was suspicious based off the opening and then the post I initially voted on him for that made me WTF all over the place. But I bought into his limited internet time. Seems he's not so limited anymore:

I think thestick has been voted up too easily for him to be mafia. He's been around (based on PBEM42), just hasn't had time to read and think. If he was mafia, I think he'd have been fed some lines to put out to avoid suspicion. Same goes for Mattimeo.

I still like the vote on Bigger (fluff posts, responding to accusations by instead defending a townie for cred) and the bandwagons coincide nicely with trying to take pressure off of him.

Defending thestick which we saw a lot of during the day.

But it does everything a baner does and then some. That breaks pretty clearly with the info BRick gave us. Essentially it's a super baner. For practical purposes, just about the same as a baner if he's townie. Mattimeo, did you misinform us?

Come on, a landslide this big on thestick is as much evidence you can get that he's a very convenient mislynch due to his inactivity and foot-in-mouth. Let's hang someone else.

Emphasis mine. The rest of the post was fine, but the last bit caught me.

Merovech, who is scummier: Someone who sticks his neck out to defend a wolf who looks very likely to hang, or someone who jumps on the switch later when it looks safer?

After the lynch is done, Catwalk defends himself after failing to save thestick. Personally I think the question Catwalk poses is too simplified. The issue is context. I don't think there's anything wrong with protesting a lynch that you disagree with. But if you're doing it and I already have a scum read on you, its not going to help your case.

But the best:

Azza, do you think I would have stuck my neck out for thestick like I did if I knew he was guilty? My argument wasn't based around others being really good targets (Mattimeo a little bit), it was based around not seeing any sensible way for the wolves to let thestick sink so easily. As a wolf, it would have been infinitely smarter to either let him keep sinking or to press another candidate rather than base my case around how likely thestick was to show up townie. If you're arguing I'd make a stupid wolf, I guess I don't have a good counter argument

The old, "If I were a wolf would I REALLY do that?" line. Also I love the bit about "My argument wasn't based around others being really good targets". So basically what it came down to was you were willing to lynch anybody BUT thestick, and presumably your scum buddies. Now that woulda been a hoot. "Ah yeah, not thestick but also not that guy."

There are a lot of other posts between here and when I went to bed, but I really didn't want to make this longer than I had to.

What it comes down to is, I believe Catwalk the balls to vigorously defend thestick even if he does know thestick is a wolf. Just reminds me of the live WW games where he was scum.

If I had the luxury to reveal my chief suspicion just before daybreak, I would totally do it.

[Catwalk]

If you want to assume I'd pull off a daring play as a wolf, I can't altogether deny that I'd probably be prone to that as a wolf. Do you insist I'd be a ballsy AND stupid wolf, though? I'm not in a very good position now with thestick turning up wolf. It was highly likely he would hang at the time I tried to change the tide. So yes, I wouldn't do that as a wolf. I now have suspicion being piled on me and my judgement is being called into question (for a change). There just isn't enough incentive. If you still think my opening post reads way scummy, fair enough. But please ease up about internet time already. I said I'd be gone for roughly 48h and I returned home Sunday evening after which I was free.

[Lewwyn]

If you want to assume I'd pull off a daring play as a wolf, I can't altogether deny that I'd probably be prone to that as a wolf. Do you insist I'd be a ballsy AND stupid wolf, though? I'm not in a very good position now with thestick turning up wolf. It was highly likely he would hang at the time I tried to change the tide. So yes, I wouldn't do that as a wolf. I now have suspicion being piled on me and my judgement is being called into question (for a change). There just isn't enough incentive. If you still think my opening post reads way scummy, fair enough. But please ease up about internet time already. I said I'd be gone for roughly 48h and I returned home Sunday evening after which I was free.

I know, that's why I didn't vote on you before I went to bed, but you're back now so open season, no?

And personally I don't think it would be stupid if you thought you could get away with it.

[novice]

What strikes me about Lewwyn's last Catwalk quote, is that Catwalk first argued that Thestick must be innocent since the wolves wouldn't just let him sink, and then argues that the sensible thing for wolf Catwalk to do would be to let Thestick sink.

[Catwalk]

I know, that's why I didn't vote on you before I went to bed, but you're back now so open season, no?

And personally I don't think it would be stupid if you thought you could get away with it.

Not if I thought I could get away with it, no. If you think that looked realistic at 9-4-2 with an hour left and several players all but locking their votes on thestick, I won't stop you. I read it as a sign that he was being set up for a mislynch, and I was wrong.

What strikes me about Lewwyn's last Catwalk quote, is that Catwalk first argued that Thestick must be innocent since the wolves wouldn't just let him sink, and then argues that the sensible thing for wolf Catwalk to do would be to let Thestick sink.

Pretty much, yes. My case for thestick was based heavily on having a hard time believing thestick was given up so easily. Were I wolf, I would have done more to push dirt elsewhere instead of letting thestick dig a bigger hole for himself while focusing on defending myself. I think the wolves played this very poorly, for whatever reason.

[novice]

Catwalk, what?

[Lewwyn]

Catwalk, [strike]what?[/strike] WTF?

FIFY

[Tasunke]

So catwalk ... do you need to borrow my shovel?

[zakalwe]

Zakalwe: Obviously Injera made himself noticed yesterday, and you haven't mentioned him, yet, so...

Nice Poirot impersonation, btw.

I don't really suspect Injera at this point. He would have to be the most "in your face" scum ever, which doesn't jive with his previous games as scum.

*strokes mustache*