WW16: The Outlaws and The Olives

[Lewwyn]

If you can kindly give me a little bit more time, I'm going to have a look at those 9 and see if I feel strongly enough about any of them.

Let me just say... So scummy. You're under pressure so you draw up a list of people and then after that say let me see if I feel strongly about any of them? What? Give me time so I can figure out if I even suspect the people I listed? Are you kidding me!

I would vote for you, but I'm already voting for you.

[Catwalk]

I have voiced the theory earlier, and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one. I'm not saying all the scum are inactive/inexperienced, but I think they're less active and experienced than usual. It reminds me of that game recently where the town won a landslide victory due to the scum having a weak roster. I wanted to use that to narrow the field down rather than post a cluttering list of how I feel about all live players. Not saying that can't be useful, but only if you have something interesting to say about most of them.

The fact that Zak AND novice were both attacked last night hints that at least one of the scum is a vet.

I don't think it takes a genius to realize that zakalwe and novice had a lot of traction yesterday and were all but confirmed as townies. And as mentioned above, I'm not saying the entire scum faction is inexperienced or inactive. Only planning on using this as an aid to find one lynch target for today, and planning on looking at those players from other angles (specifically, what they said and did).

And yes, lists were swapped. Actually, screw it. I will contribute later if I think of something, don't lynch me in the meantime.

[Azza]

You're really not making a convincing argument about your innocence there Catwalk.

[Catwalk]

I know, but several of you seem to be decided already. I don't think I have much to contribute (nor do I care all that much, I somehow end up regretting every time I sign up for this) and will stick with backing accusations by mostly confirmed townies. I don't think I'm going to hang tonight or tomorrow, so I hope to hit a wolf and get some town cred that way. I'm not giving up or signing out, just not going to keep punching into a pillow at this time.

[Tasunke]

Not sure I'm comfortable with all the Mayor votes on Novice. I mean, YES he has been acting villagerish, but he is also far from confirmed.

Jkaen seems to be the only person with doubts (other than me, perhaps) and his doubts seem very valid- including a pervious case of faking a post restriction similar to the one he seems to be experiencing now (if I interpreted what you said incorrectly, please forgive me, but this is the impression that I got).

Personally I think Selrahc and Serdoa are giving a more solid village read (at least for me) than Novice. (perhaps this is why Mattimeo skipped over Novice in his power usage? Perhaps he was getting a similar read as I? at least in that he suspected others of village moreso than the Novster)

The banter between Novice and Uberfish may have been just playfulness ... but I think there was more to it than that. Yes, it may have been at least partially spontaneous, but I also get this feeling that it was also agreed upon before hand in their wolf thread.

I'm not exactly saying that Novice is a wolf, but I think that there is at least a reasonable amount of doubt ... and I hope that other villagers would agree.

[waterbat]

@Rowain, @Pindicator:

I dont have much time to set up a full dossier on each player right now, but I will do a short writeup:

Player list: (in order of signup)
[SIZE="4"]1) novice: the Secretary[/SIZE]
Seemingly Obvtown, but I'm holding back due to his past history.
[SIZE="4"]2) Injera: the Electrician[/SIZE]
Seemed like Injera the wolf to me. Perhaps I've played with him as wolf-buddy one time too many and just am colored by it.
[SIZE="4"]3) Meiz: the Firefighter[/SIZE]
Attack on me seems forced, but not any differently than I would expect from him.
[SIZE="4"]4) zakalwe: the Farmer[/SIZE]
Dead - too big a target
[SIZE="4"]5) Qgqqqqq: the Student[/SIZE]
wasn't seeing the case against him very strong. Don't know why he was equivocating between uberfish and catwalk yesterday, but an avoidance of thestick BW may be it.
[SIZE="4"]6) Rowain: the Town drunk[/SIZE]
Was not suspicious at all until reading thestick's message again after it was posted recently. He initially mentioned "Rowain and waterbat" as unhinged... and then put Rowain in again as one of his suspects. I think in both of these places - he may have been tempted into throwing in a fellow wolf.
[SIZE="4"]7) Molach: the Street musician[/SIZE]
one post struck me as odd:

So if stick flips mafia then we should have a lot to work on tomorrow. And something as well if he is village - passive followers and such.

. That seemed like trying a bit hard to distance himself from the knowledge that thestick was indeed a wolf. I dont know - only 6 posts or so - not much to go off of.
[SIZE="4"]8) Azza: the Mechanic[/SIZE]
no read - seems like he is legitimately getting his feet wet here. watch for the sharks, azza!
[SIZE="4"]9) Waterbat: the Clergy[/SIZE]
so innocent it hurts
[SIZE="4"]10) Pindicator: the Lawyer[/SIZE]
liked Rowain's argument on him. The very scummy voting pattern at the end of the day does not help.
[SIZE="4"]11) Merovech: the Bartender[/SIZE]
no read at all
[SIZE="4"]12) Serdoa: the Chef[/SIZE]
no read, but I still feel like i need to have brick roleblock him each night
[SIZE="4"]13) Bigger: the Milkman[/SIZE]
I dont think the votes necessarily clear him. I think Mattimeo was the true mislynch target and when that wagon failed, the revert to Bigger may have been a ploy. Not sure about this - but not willing to clear either.
[SIZE="4"]14) Ichabod: the Pizza Delivery Boy[/SIZE]
slippery one. Not sure about alignment
[SIZE="4"]15) Arromir: the Newspaper Editor[/SIZE]
suspicious activities for a newbie
[SIZE="4"]16) Sareln: the Psychiatrist[/SIZE]
very surprised he has 8 votes already today. needs to show up to account for his actions at the deadline, hmmm....
[SIZE="4"]17) tasunke: the Librarian[/SIZE]
i like his style burn everything
[SIZE="4"]18) thestick: the Mailman[/SIZE]
dead. loving how he voted me for a post that was a joke partially aimed at him (placing a proclamation of innocence in all caps) perhaps I should have made it size=5 as well.
[SIZE="4"]19) Lewwyn: the Garbage collector[/SIZE]
I don't mind that he's collecting garbage on everyone, but i do wonder what he does with it back in his lair
[SIZE="4"]20) uberfish: the Barrel-maker[/SIZE]
my prime suspect at this point - although very astute and don't think that he would be so obvious a mafia.
[SIZE="4"]21) Catwalk: the Bureaucrat[/SIZE]
lean village on catwalk. seems to be trying legitimately to be helpful
[SIZE="4"]22) Gaspar: the Carpenter[/SIZE]
was looking forward to playing with gaspar - i may have just given his arguments more cred than they deserve.
[SIZE="4"]23) Jkaen: the Olive Picker[/SIZE]
i don't like his style - but i dont see anything different that the last few times we mislynched him for more minor reasons.
[SIZE="4"]24) Mattimeo: the Wine connoisseur[/SIZE]
my read is village on mr mattimeo. i wonder what would have happened with no claim. if mattimeo wolf, couldnt they see that if mattimeo claimed, the votes would go back to the stick? I'd think a more elaborate play was in order there.
[SIZE="4"]25) Selrahc: the Knife smith[/SIZE]
No read. must watch for the knives that he makes don't end up in our backs.
[SIZE="4"]26) Twinkletoes89: the Barber[/SIZE]
No read.


so.... im a bit embarrassed by the number of "no reads" I just havent taken very good notes about individual posts/actions this game. I also would like to review yesterday's voting - I am just taking people at their word for the exact sequence of events.

with the limited info above, if I'd have to pick 5 more wolves, it would be:

uberfish
pindicator
Qgqqqqq
Arromir

not sure of the 5th....

Rowain (although I think Rowain and pindicator are mutually exclusive for mafia, so if pindicator flips town, i'd put rowain up on my list in his place)

or

Molach


pretty big cross post - so before Lewwyn accuses me of being under pressure so I draw up a list, I don't feel under pressure, but I have been asked twice to "draw up a list" in other words.

I am definitely willing to join Bigger on uberfish

My reasoning goes back to the early game. I feel like I am seen by the experienced players as an easy mislynch. I think uberfish's post that jumped all over my first post was laying the groundwork for that lynch. Subsequent posts did not seem helpful or pro-town. The voting pattern also not kind to uberfish either (although admittedly i have to review).

I am also not ready to pile on a single candidate. Although bigger is correct - waiting for Sareln to defend, getting bored, and moving elsewhere is a pattern that we have seen before. This pattern is harmful to us even if he is village - because we will spend future days arguing about Sareln while the mafia safely go about their business.


fake edit: more crossposting

funny catwalk doesnt want to post a list because he doenst have interesting things to say about people. I don't either , but put all of that banality out there for everyone to read. Sorry guys!

moving catwalk down a notch every time he posts. This is odd though - in past games when I had that feeling about someone (or was pretending to have that feeling about someone), Lewwyn would come swooping into the rescue. I.E. "Its so obvious an innocent is flailing about".

Lewwyn, what makes catwalk's flailing different than say... Twinkletoes' flailing a few games back? I think you even defended me when i was an innocent flailing.

[Jkaen]

Guys I know what Catwalk has posted so far wasn't that helpful but jumping right on top of things like this as people try to put their thoughts together is just going to send them back into their shell and turn them into sheep.

I would quite happily take catwalks original thoughts on 9 players than have thoughts on none of them. Why dont we just wait to see what he produces on the 9 before jumping all over his analysis? Maybe then he can expand the conclusions to cover more at a later post?

[waterbat]

Jkaen seems to be the only person with doubts (other than me, perhaps)

Doubts here. novice would be the type to try to pull off the fake restriction for a second time! He'd also be the type to try some early bussing as well. The thing is - those strategies were so effective - how could you not be tempted? plus - he and his mates could always make the argument "what wolf would repeat the same exact strategy?" We do need to keep a watchful eye on him - the longer he stays alive, the more worried we need to become. (yes, I'm telling the wolves not to night kill him if he is innocent)

If he is wolf, the best I can hope is I get in the endgame with Jkaen - you won't let me down again this time, right J?

[Tasunke]

Again, because (to the best of my knoweldge) Novice has faked a post restriction before, we cannot just take with certainty that he was in fact attacked.

In fact, the fact that Catwalk blindly accepts the premise that both were attacked, and supports this by saying, and I quote "both Zakalwe and Novice were all but confirmed villagers Day 1"

This is an exaggeration, imho, of Novice's play during day 1. Zakalwe was clearly village, especially once you saw that theStick turned out to be wolf ... yet Novice ignored the fact that he waited at least 5 hours to switch onto TheStick after Zak, and in the meanwhile voted me ... which under the circumstances is not something I would think a village Novice would do, as experienced as he is both at Werewolf and at playing with me.

[Tasunke]

As I was saying, the fact that Catwalk blindly accepts this things, and pushes forth the idea that novice was "all but confirmed" at day 1, makes him look pretty scummy WHEN YOU COMBINE it with his other odd actions, such as creating inactive and inexperienced lists.

Personally the whole thing makes Rowain look a bit more villagery, and Catwalk+Novice looking a bit more Scummy.