Game Crash

[ShadowHM]

I still can't make this go away. :mad: :mad:

The past couple of days have been horrible. I resorted to playing my D2 team games back on the other computer.

I tried one more thing late last night, installing the new NVidia 174.74 driver update. (As opposed to the driver for my specific video card, which is what I have been doing so far.) It *seemed* ok last night, when I took MissTick for a quick tour; at least I didn't get the blue screen of death as she ventured into the midst of the demons.

But I just now saw the dreaded "Display driver nvlddmkm stopped responding and has successfully recovered" message as I typed this post, even.

[Dr.Disaster]

But I just now saw the dreaded "Display driver nvlddmkm stopped responding and has successfully recovered" message as I typed this post, even.

Hmm ... i checked the Release notes of the new 174.74 driver but did not see any changes to your GPU (8800GT).

I guess you did double check on the driver file versions yet so let's assume the driver itself is ok. I also assume the card is firmly seated and secured inside the PC so let's look at other possible problems.

What 3D performance/quality setting are in use under which resolution? Ever tried reducing some of them?

If you didn't check GPU core temperature yet, mark the notify option under the "temperature setting" driver option. If without 3D usage GPU is at 50+% of it's max temperature, check
- before/at game start
- after being in the game for, let's say, 15 minutes
- when you see the driver recovered message
Try playing with the cover open and see if things change.

Do you have another pc at hand so you can test-drive your 8800GT to make sure it's not faulty? If not (or do not dare to) try to get some exhauting 3D test like Futuremark's 3DMark.

Dr. Disaster

[ShadowHM]

Hmm ... i checked the Release notes of the new 174.74 driver but did not see any changes to your GPU (8800GT).

It was included on the list of products supported....

I guess you did double check on the driver file versions yet so let's assume the driver itself is ok. I also assume the card is firmly seated and secured inside the PC so let's look at other possible problems.

What 3D performance/quality setting are in use under which resolution? Ever tried reducing some of them?

Currently, I have the image settings at: "Let the 3D application decide" And resolution is at 1680 x 1050. So far, I have not considered reducing them because that was the entire point of getting the new system.

If you didn't check GPU core temperature yet, mark the notify option under the "temperature setting" driver option. If without 3D usage GPU is at 50+% of it's max temperature, check
- before/at game start
- after being in the game for, let's say, 15 minutes
- when you see the driver recovered message
Try playing with the cover open and see if things change.

Doc, that all sailed right over my head. I don't see any such option in the NVidia control panel, nor do I see it anywhere else I have peeked into in the Control Panel.

I do know that I have one heck of a cooling system in the computer. However, that doesn't mean it was properly installed, I suppose. I used to have a temperature monitor program installed on my old computer, so I will see if I can download it again and check for temperatures.

Do you have another pc at hand so you can test-drive your 8800GT to make sure it's not faulty? If not (or do not dare to) try to get some exhauting 3D test like Futuremark's 3DMark.

Heh. I do not dare. But I did have it checked once already by the TigerDirect technical support folks. (The computer failed to communicate with the monitor when first assembled, and I couldn't figure out why. It turned out to be the fan install, which they re-did for me.) I suppose I am assuming (and perhaps incorrectly) that they did it right.

[Dr.Disaster]

It was included on the list of products supported....

Sorry, my comment was misleading. I meant "fixed problems" with your GPU type. All i see for the 8800 series are some flicker fixes with other games but nothing with HG:L or in common.

Currently, I have the image settings at: "Let the 3D application decide" And resolution is at 1680 x 1050. So far, I have not considered reducing them because that was the entire point of getting the new system.

OK Keep the resolution, but let's play a bit with 3D settings.

These settings work fine with my 7600 GT:
Antialiasing Setting -> Application controlled
Anisotropic Filter -> Application controlled
Image Setting -> Quality
Vertical Sync -> Application controlled
Force MipMaps -> none
Texture Clamp -> off
Every additional optimization, buffering or antialiasing option -> off
Negative LOD bias -> allow

Doc, that all sailed right over my head. I don't see any such option in the NVidia control panel, nor do I see it anywhere else I have peeked into in the Control Panel.

Heck we've been both fooled! You can't find it anymore and the driver release note says why: the nVidia guys removed(!) the GPU temperature monitoring from the Control Panel :mad: You need to use nVidia nTune 5.05+ to access this feature. Get it and have a look.

[Roland]

1) Download Driver Cleaner Pro here or here, install it, and run it. Follow the directions to the letter! (I will post them below for your usage.) Alternatively, see directions here for assistance if needed.
2) Install either the latest reference drivers from NVIDIA available here, or the latest "beta" drivers available here.

If at all possible, keep Vista from automatically installing a driver. I'm not sure how that works, per se, but XP uses a very basic driver. It doesn't actually install an NVIDIA one. Vista may or may not be different; I'm not sure. I refuse to touch that thing.

Notes from Driver Cleaner Pro (my version is 1.15; not sure what the latest build is).
nVidia:
1. Unplug nic card or modem from net or disconnect (*I find this step unnecessary, but YMMV*)
2. Remove nvidia from add/remove programs
3. Reboot into safe mode (F8 during boot up)
4. On reboot into safe mode WinXP SP1/SP2 will auto detect and install drivers. Just let it do its thing. If you can cancel out of the auto install hardware wizard then skip the rest and run Driver Cleaner! If you can NOT cancel out of auto detect wizard then...
5. Navigate to device manager->display adapters->highlight nVidia and click uninstall or remove but don't reboot
6. Disable any AntiVirus Software (If you don't disable is than it could give trouble)
7. Run Cab Cleaner (not needed, but recommended) (*I never do*)
8. Run Driver Cleaner
9. Empty recycle bin and reboot
10. Install the new drivers


Try that out and let me know what happens. If it still fails, I don't know what to tell you. It could be an NVIDIA software issue (which is what it sounds like; as much as the good Doc is offering his help, I'm 95% certain it's NOT hardware based), or a Vista software issue. The only alternative I can offer is to start with the latest (beta) drivers, and slowly test through all the drivers (latest to earliest) for a period of an hour or so (or however long it takes to make the error appear) with each one, following the above directions for each driver.

It sounds to me like you have a rogue file somewhere causing conflicts. I do not believe, at this time, that you've managed to completely wipe the old drivers. Then again, this is Vista. I have zero experience with Vista, and I intend to keep it that way, so my knowledge is for XP and earlier. It should still be applicable, but Hades only knows what vile things Microsoft put into that horrid PoS. Anyway, best of luck to you, and if you need me to fill in again this Sunday, let me know. I'll see what I can do (although it was tough last time, what with my antiquated hardware).

[Dr.Disaster]

It was included on the list of products supported....

After re-checking the 174.74 release notes i noted that this driver only supports these GPU's:
GeForce 9800 GX2
GeForce 9800 GTX
GeForce 9600 GT
GeForce 8300
GeForce 8200
GeForce 8100/NVIDIA nForce 720a
NVIDIA nForce 730a

Sorry Shadow, no 8800 GT here

It looks like 174.74 is a very specific driver for some GPU variants seated on several mainboards or notebooks. Vista will let you install it but can't apply it to your gfx card since it uses a different chip.

No matter what the nVidia page may tell you the 8800 GT is supported from driver version 169.02 onward. Yet 169.25 is the lastest certified driver for your GPU. The current beta versions you can give a try are 169.28 and 169.44. Not sure how much has been changed there since they seem to only fix some issues with Crysis patches.

Sidenote to Roland: you are right, gfx problems while running a 3D application are most likely driver related. Now Shadow stated that she has yet experienced the same problem while posting here! Having quite an array of experience with gfx problems this behavior is at least suspicious.

[Dr.Disaster]

With a web search i found that your error message "Display driver nvlddmkm stopped responding ..." seems to be pretty common on Vista systems that run one of the more powerful nVidia GPU's. After reading thru some of these threads it boils down to 3 possibilities:

1) Vista thinks it detected a "stalled" GPU (low frame rate or whatever) and reloads the driver. This causes the message you see. You can check http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device/dis...meout.mspx for more details.
2) The GPU is over-heating which causes 1) which is what i suspect
3) Vista runs an out-dated nvlddmkm.sys (a rogue file as Roland suspects)

Let's see what can be done step by step.


1) I can't see how a 8800 GT would get below 10 FPS with HG:L but anyway
lets prevent Vista from "detecting stalls" by setting a new registry key:
- open regedit
- navigate to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Control\GraphicsDrivers
- create a new DWORD key named "TdrDebugMode" and set it's value to "1". This tells Vista to ignore any GPU timeouts.
- reboot

Test-drive if this works for you. If you still run into blue screens after setting this key here is an alternative:
- open regedit again
- navigate to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Control\GraphicsDrivers again
- create a new key DWORD named "TdrDelay" and set it's value to "4" (or higher). This sets the GPU timeout to 4 seconds (or higher) instead the default of 2.
- delete the key "TdrDebugMode" to make "TdrDelay" work
- reboot


2) Install nVidia's nTune tool to monitor and control the GPU fan(s). It will require some tests to see if and how this helps you.

First find out what your GPU's temperature is before starting HG:L and after a session of about 15 minutes. If the difference is huge, increase fan speed to 80+% and see if things work better.


3) Few people found that the driver file nvlddmkm.sys located in \windows\system32\drivers (sometimes also \windows\drivers) is NOT(!) updated when a newer driver is installed. Even uninstalling the old driver may not remove the old nvlddmkm.sys file. Could be Vista or driver installer related, no clue here.

Search under \windows for each and every nvlddmkm.sys file and do a right-click -> properties on them, then check the version tabs. If the number listed here matches your driver you are ok. If not follow the steps below.


Preparation to solve the problem:
- download the latest nVidia driver to your desktop (if not already done)
- use WinZIP (or a similar tool) to extract the driver .exe file into it a folder
- locate the file nvlddmkm.sy_ inside the extract driver folder
- copy nvlddmkm.sy_ to a simpler folder name, like c:\
- open a CMD window (DOS box)
- cd to the folder you have choosen above
- run the command "expand nvlddmkm.sy_ nvlddmkm.sys"

Solve the problem:
- locate each and every nvlddmkm.sys file under your \windows path
- rename each nvlddmkm.sys to nvlddmkm.sys.old (or similar)
- copy your manually generated nvlddmkm.sys beside their renamed counterparts
- reboot

You may wonder why i did not say "copy your manually generated nvlddmkm.sys over all wrong file". Vista will very likely prevent you from doing this, protecting the existing files.


Dr. Disaster

[ShadowHM]

Update:

Doc, I am sorry to say that reading your suggestions filled me with terror - terror that I would bollux the job, not only making things worse but making it impossible to tell where I went wrong.

So I took the computer to the Tech Support desk at the store where I purchased all the components. The initial reaction was that I had managed to install either Vista or the NVidia drivers improperly and they would quickly fix that for me.

Instead, they discovered that there truly was something odd there that they could not readily fix for me. They have now checked the software installations, the video card, the RAM and the CPU. They now are telling me that it *must* be the motherboard that is defective, but they cannot tell quickly because they have no more of that particular one in stock at the moment and I will have to await the next shipment before they can check farther.

I suppose that one bright side of this is that I am not (quite) as incompetent as I thought. That is a fairly small patch of brightness though.

And the other bright side is that I can still play D2 on the old computer, so that I can and will see you tomorrow.

[Dr.Disaster]

Doc, I am sorry to say that reading your suggestions filled me with terror - terror that I would bollux the job, not only making things worse but making it impossible to tell where I went wrong.

I hoped not to scare you with that techno-babble needed to show the yet known possiblities and solutions to your problem. Unfortunatly there wasn't an easier way to explain things.

So I took the computer to the Tech Support desk at the store where I purchased all the components.

OK that would have been 4) on my little list

The initial reaction was that I had managed to install either Vista or the NVidia drivers improperly ...

... what's not necessarily your fault

They now are telling me that it *must* be the motherboard that is defective, but they cannot tell quickly because they have no more of that particular one in stock at the moment and I will have to await the next shipment before they can check farther.

Just make sure they don't charge you for fixing a problem they yet think is in their responsability

And the other bright side is that I can still play D2 on the old computer, so that I can and will see you tomorrow.

[ShadowHM]

Final (I sincerely hope) update:

I collected the computer from the store yesterday. The folks there must have passed the buck upwards until it hit the desk of "Gus" who was the senior technician there. According to Gus, rather than wait for another motherboard to come in, he decided to swap the video card out and replace it with a new one, just to see what happened. And (after reloading Vista and the video card drivers and downloading all the Vista patches), it *seemed* to be doing just fine. So he concluded that it was, despite whatever tests his team had undertaken, a faulty video card.

I paid nothing for the diagnostic services, and since the video card (as with all the other parts) had been purchased there within the past few weeks, the video card was replaced for free too.

I have now re-loaded all kinds of important things on the computer, including TeamSpeak, Ventrilo, Diablo II and Hellgate: London. And I have taken a couple hours of touring inside Hellgate: London with nary a sign of errors.