Diplomacy Master Thread- Helping Your Opponents Beat Themselves

[scooter]

I am fine with this. However... I doubt we'd be real friends in this game. They are obviously treating us as future enemies rather than friends, which of course was to be expected. I feel we don't owe them any favors in the future.

Kalin

From my perspective, I really disagree. He wasn't being a pain about this, he just posed a question and I didn't want to get ticky-tacky about it, especially when we've directed them onto a tile next to our workers on the gold anyways. Hang on, let me clean up the chat log now and I'll post it in a few minutes, should be more clear.

[scooter]

Ok this is longer than I like chat logs to be, but I wasn't sure what else to cut (wanted to include the NAP stuff). If you think this is a total non-issue, this is not important to read and you can skip it. If you're concerned, read away.

Caledorn: Heya Are you around?
scooter: yep!
Caledorn: We got your response, just so you know, and the team is of course discussing it. I would have notified you sooner, but we have a visitor over for a few days so I haven't had the time until now
scooter: oh no problem, and sounds great.
Caledorn: I was told to ask you something by the turnplayers though, which is a bit urgent
scooter: yeah?
Caledorn: In your response you propose an exploration route that starts with a move 6
scooter: yeah. that tile is the one risky one though as it's flat. after that you're in good terrain
have you guys moved already?
Caledorn: However, our turn players would prefer to move 9, so they told me to ask if there was any specific reason for the suggestion of moving 6
What they said was that a move of 9-8-9 would give save us one turn of moves
scooter: it was just a comfort thing somebody suggested. one or two people are concerned about a warrior being next to important tiles of our new city
if you guys move 9, we won't complain. we do have a NAP after all.
Caledorn: That makes sense. Are you absolutely certain that there won't be any hostile reactions to moving 9? We don't wish to needlessly worry you guys, and cooperation is more important to us than saving one turn of movement
scooter: My personal opinion - I would not mind. the opinions vary. nobody would be very upset, but a couple players wouldn't love it
Caledorn: Give me a sec - I just need to read what the turnplayer wrote again
Typing on the phone is a bit slow
there - I logged in on the computer instead
a lot quicker
what the turn player wrote is that even if we move 6-9-7-9 we will reveal the same tiles as if we move 9-8-9 - which I am sure that you guys are aware of too
so bascially this only boils down to discomfort of having a warrior within move range of your borders, which is perfectly understandable
scooter: (sorry, dropped a quick post in our forum for those who are around now)
Caledorn: no problem
scooter: Ok, I think this is not a big deal. I'm checking the last screenshot, and that does not put you guys next to a worker which is what team members are most protective about
Caledorn: this is not a big deal at all, so I would be very surprised if the team objects moving 6 over 9
ah
scooter: haha

<note: yes that was a "crosspost">

Caledorn: well
one thing I can guarantee you is that we're definitely not going to break a NAP
scooter: yeah I believe you. I'm not worried about it at all. go ahead and move 9 - it's safer for you
Caledorn: breaking a NAP has severe consequences for the reputation of everyone on a team, seeing as the team would be seen as condoning the act
scooter: agreed.
a NAP break right now would be insane for either of us
Caledorn: I think that's what confused our turn players too, because they were confused about the suggested move pattern as it wouldn't hide any tiles from us
oh, yes, definitely
scooter: we had a worker on that tile just a couple turns ago, I think the guy who suggested directions thought it was still there

<no idea if this was kjn's intentions, but it sounded likely>

Caledorn: and all the other teams would obviously hear about it too as soon as they got in touch, so if one of us broke a nap, it would more or less be a game ender for the team that did it
scooter: yeah definitely. NAP breaking is just dumb.
Caledorn: personally (that is not speaking for the team), I don't break NAPs even if it meant I would win the game. some may perceive that as weakness, but to me personally I think that personal honour and reputation is a lot more important than one single victory. and based on what I've seen that's the general attitude of most CFC and RB players as well
scooter: yeah, that's our preference too. I just don't know so many of these teams so I'll still be pretty cautious with a lot of them.
Caledorn: Likewise for me too. Too many people I don't know at all, and some of the forums I simply didn't even know existed until they signed up for this game
scooter: Yep me too. Amazing there are so many active Civ4 forums 8 years after release!
Caledorn: I was very happy when we met you guys so early, as I felt very certain that if we could find common ground to work with, it meant that deals that are made will be kept
and yes - Civ4 is a very longlived game for sure!
I will tell the turn players that we got a green light to move 9-8-9 from you
scooter: Yeah that's how I felt too. Good news for sure!
8 will put you on a forest, 9 on a desert hill
from there it's forest and jungles and you can take your pick
Caledorn: Off-record though: I'm wondering a bit about what to say about the proposed scout route. Do you think I should just state outright that someone was concerned about having us move in too close?
scooter: yeah, well the guy who gave the routes thought there was still a worker on the border too so he was just trying to keep us from having to cover it
i'm a big believer in always covering your workers even when you are 99.9% sure it won't matter

<um, except for in 34s>

Caledorn: That sounds sensible to me, even with a NAP. If there are anyone on the team who finds that offensive, I'll bully them a bit
(in a good way of course .. hehe)
scooter: FWIW, at RB we've been playing a lot of AW games for awhile in PBEM or Pitboss... so we're in the habit of being paranoid in the early turns
no NAPs in a game where diplo is banned, hah

<snip couple minutes of random general chitchat>

Caledorn: Ack. This is slightly embarassing for me. But apparently the current turn player logged in and did move the warrior 9 before we actually made an agreement about it here.
scooter: oh no worries
Caledorn: Even though it was okay with you, I don't feel to comfortable with that, as I wanted to get a green light beforehand. I'll go post on the forum now. Sorry about that!
scooter: hey no problem. we never actually agreed that you couldn't move there, so I don't think it's an issue
or rather, there's no reason you couldn't move there. it was just the suggested move

He did point out that the suggested moves will put him next to the gold tile which has the workers. I said we'll probably cover them just to be safe, and he expected as much. Anyways, the gist is that he didn't make a thing out of this. He actually seemed really worried that they somehow offended us.

[Bigger]

ha re your 'WE' comment. I typically have to think 'NYC is East coast, LA is West coast' (or 'Sydney is East coast, Perth is West coast') and then picture it on a map and W and E fall into their correct spots.

I still sometimes say to myself "Never Eat Sour Wheat" which makes it easier to remember =).

[kjn]

Heh. E is probably a little safer than NE. Both gets next to a single unfogged tile, but NE has a higher risk of two-movers (if there are some panthers still alive).

This also hints that they're not very well-disciplined over on CFC.

No big deal, IMO.

[SevenSpirits]

We should definitely tell them that, then. Say the E direction was given due to the lower risk of 2-movers. And of course say we're OK with the move they proposed instead.

[scooter]

We should definitely tell them that, then. Say the E direction was given due to the lower risk of 2-movers. And of course say we're OK with the move they proposed instead.

I'll probably mention it next time I chat with Caledorn. Easy enough.

[Lewwyn]

I still sometimes say to myself "Never Eat Sour Wheat" which makes it easier to remember =).

I always say, "Never Eat Shredded Wheat". Learned that in second grade.

[zakalwe]

Is that really helpful, though? If you're prone to mix up east and west, or right and left, aren't you equally prone to mix up clockwise and counterclockwise?

(Honest question, I don't recall ever having much trouble keeping any of those straight, so I don't really know if the issues are correlated or not, but it seems likely to me.)

[Lewwyn]

Always clockwise. Also Never Eat is left to right like writing. Shredded, South cuts back and West is simply the last one standing. Dunno. I always do this ridiculous hand motion while I repeat it...

[zakalwe]

I always do this ridiculous hand motion while I repeat it...

Like so?