WW16: The Outlaws and The Olives

[Injera]

I didn't "pull a gambit" this game, I just didn't like either vote and had 10 min to find somewhere to put a vote. I didn't want to risk lynching a power role with thestick, and I thought bigger sounded villagerish on day 1. What would you do if you had to find someone to vote for in 10 min and didn't like either of the top 2 candidates?

Okay. The way you were talking about it made me think you had done it intentionally this game. Personally I'd vote for one of the two candidates, there's no reason not too unless you think you've really screwed up your assumptions.

[Catwalk]

I didn't "pull a gambit" this game, I just didn't like either vote and had 10 min to find somewhere to put a vote. I didn't want to risk lynching a power role with thestick, and I thought bigger sounded villagerish on day 1. What would you do if you had to find someone to vote for in 10 min and didn't like either of the top 2 candidates?

If there was only those 2 to choose from (seemed to be the case), I would go with the lesser evil. I assume you didn't see them both as 100% townie. If I saw them both as 80% townie, I would read their posts again and try to find some little tell to base the decision on. I don't quite understand why you didn't do that and think it's quite scummy, or just a bad move. I acknowledge that you might have done as a villager, and it's not a huge point against you for me personally.

And I see I x-posted with Injera.

[Serdoa]

If there was only those 2 to choose from (seemed to be the case), I would go with the lesser evil. I assume you didn't see them both as 100% townie. If I saw them both as 80% townie, I would read their posts again and try to find some little tell to base the decision on. I don't quite understand why you didn't do that and think it's quite scummy, or just a bad move. I acknowledge that you might have done as a villager, and it's not a huge point against you for me personally.

And I see I x-posted with Injera.

With 10 minutes on the clock going back and rereading their posts? Hoping to find a tell which is enough to convince you? I find it hard to believe that this would work.

Generally though, yeah, it doesn't make sense as a villager to vote for someone who will not be lynched for certain. But when I look at D2, there are several players doing exactly that. Can someone explain why it is such a big deal in pindicators case but not in the case of several others? We had a pretty close running D2 as well - and all those keeping their votes at others as the first 3 seem for me in the exact same situation as pindicator, no? We even have several players showing up slightly before or after the deadline and not moving their votes despite it being on completely irrelevant targets.

[waterbat]

If there was only those 2 to choose from (seemed to be the case), I would go with the lesser evil.

I have generally abhorred being wrong in these games.... and i;ve been wrong a lot. If I've gotten a read on someone that I think is legitimate and I dont buy the cases against the 2 candidates - I'm not necessarily going to jump on one. But... I am starting to see the flaw in this line of thinking. Between wolves, late-to-the-party villagers, and jittery villagers, too much action happens late and its easier for the wolves to manipulate the wagons. yesterday exemplified this - at 7-7-6, - they wolves can pick who they want and when and fade in among the rest of us trying to make a difference.

I am not sure where this post is going or why I am typing it -- but I'm going to be better about voting for someone actually likely to lynch. If I want to lynch my actual target, I supposed I need to work on my case building and cat herding skills.

End the night early , BRick. Obvious from the above ramblings, boredom has set in.

[waterbat]

@Serdoa: I was one of those without a meaningful vote. I let Sareln's defense persuade me, didn't buy the Ichabod stuff, and I really should have pulled the trigger on pindicator - I just didnt want to do so with 50-60 posts unread and no idea of the tally. Anyway - as stated, Im going to do better.

[Catwalk]

With 10 minutes on the clock going back and rereading their posts? Hoping to find a tell which is enough to convince you? I find it hard to believe that this would work.

You don't need to be convinced that one player is innocent or that another is guilty. You just need enough to make a guess. If you refuse to make a guess, you're allowing wolf votes to count more. That's what frustrated me about yesterday's vote, there weren't enough votes on the lead candidate for him to have a reasonable chance of hanging.

Generally though, yeah, it doesn't make sense as a villager to vote for someone who will not be lynched for certain. But when I look at D2, there are several players doing exactly that. Can someone explain why it is such a big deal in pindicators case but not in the case of several others? We had a pretty close running D2 as well - and all those keeping their votes at others as the first 3 seem for me in the exact same situation as pindicator, no? We even have several players showing up slightly before or after the deadline and not moving their votes despite it being on completely irrelevant targets.

Some of them were not able to be on at or before the deadline, and wagons can change fast. But yeah, I think it's suspicious behaviour when done by anyone. Which players do you think are guilty of the same thing?

waterbat, I understand your reasoning and I think it's terribly anti-town. Being afraid of being wrong and hence not voting for someone likely to hang is the worst thing you can do. Assuming you can be on near the deadline, of course. Thinking it over, I'm actually not sure if it's necessarily a scummy thing to do. Just very anti-town. It's easy to confuse anti-town behaviour with scummy behaviour, and it's terrible to vote for someone just because you think he's a bad townie. That might work on day 1 if there's absolutely nothing to go on, but even then it's often better to just go for someone likely to divide opinions.

[waterbat]

@uber - my thing doesnt track votes. when i started writing the script, that was part of the intent. maybe it will still evolve into that. I'd really like a snapshot of each time a vote was made.

Pindicator - didn't you do one of these by hand the first time you played? a very good spreadsheet that showed what the score was when each person made their vote and the time remaining to lynch deadline. In one of your posts this game, I must have misunderstood that this is what you were going to do.

Here's the post:

I didn't read Sareln's stuff as closely as I would have liked to, so I will have to go back over it with fresh eyes (probably when I put together the voting chart).

[BRickAstley]

Night 2 is over. Writeup coming.

[BRickAstley]

Bigger pulled out another jar of olives and threw his feet back on top of the table. Olives were his favorite, and they helped him to feel more relaxed. And relaxation was rare these days, but he was glad that he could have some relaxation. His walkie-talkie buzzed with static, as his friend moved around in his house across the way. It was nice to have at least one other person in this doomed town that he could talk to and that he knew he could trust.

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Serdoa was that friend, and was just cleaning up from his late dinner, when he heard heavy footsteps coming up his front steps. He realized what that meant, picked up the walkie talkie fast enough to mutter "they're here", and quickly shut himself in the pantry. The footsteps came inside, and slowly paced their way through his house. Serdoa dared not move or breathe, hoping that the intruder would hope him to be gone. After what seemed like an eternity, the footsteps stopped. Serdoa slowly strained to put his ear to the door to ensure they were gone, but unfortunately, as he did so his shoulder brushed against a can of tomato sauce on the shelf, knocking it to the ground. The only other thing Serdoa heard was a short burst from the machine gun, bullets slicing through the door and into his chest. Blood and tomato sauce flowed out from under the door together.

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As the intruder opened the door to check that there was more than broken cans of tomato juice in the closet, Bigger, who had snuck in the door during the hubbub, jumped on his back and started strangling the intruder. He lurched around the kitchen, trying to bring his gun to bear while Bigger held his arm down and swung his fist into the intruders face. Sadly, the intruder wasn't dumb, and decided to just fall backwards onto the floor, crushing and pinning Bigger underneath him. He pulled his gun free, and pointed it at the mangled and brused Bigger, but paused to ask "Why did you get involved? Don't you want to save yourself?" Bigger responded by spitting into his face, but no sooner did the spit splatter onto the intruder than the bullets from the gun pierced Bigger's heart.

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When the village awoke and found the carnage, they mourned the loss of two of their own, faithful men unfortunate to have been taken out by the mafia so early. They prayed that their efforts to hunt down evil today would be successful and avenge these deaths.

Bigger and Serdoa were killed. They were Villager Blood Brothers

Blood Brothers - You two have been best of friends since childhood. You know each other so well, that you know that without a doubt you are both innocent, and have such a strong connection that you are able to communicate with each other in ways others cannot see (you may talk here: <REDACTED>). However, you are so close to each other that the thought of living without the other is unbearable. If one of you dies in any fashion, the other will commit suicide and die that very same day/night.

[Gaspar]

Ouch, that blows. Wonder if there's a mafia role-scanner of some sort or they just got lucky.

What say you, Rowain?