WW16: The Outlaws and The Olives

[Tasunke]

Lots of people are saying that village novice COULD fake it. Nobody is saying he did.

And you now have at least Tansuke, Bigger, Selrahc, Me, and probably half the rest of the game that say that yes it is possible.

You however seem to be ignoring the fact that we are all (maybe not Tansuke) saying that we dont think he did though!

I never said that I thought village novice would fake it That was why my suspicion that he faked it led me to believe he was a wolf If he faked it then he is a wolf

I mean if I thought village novice would have faked it then it would clear him as village or make him look more villagerish whether he faked it or not However my point was that if he did fake it then he must be a wolf

Clearly I no longer have reason to believe that he faked it so I no longer have reason to believe that he is a wolf

As I say this it would be really funny if HE had the post restricting power faked it and then cast it on someone else the next day to strengthen his claim

Obviously if novice flipped wolf it would be damning for Meiz unless a third party claimed post restrictor (possibly a village post restrictor)

However the clear and most likely scenario is that Meiz and Novice are both village

And yes my computer is retarded and cant use punctuation marks

Anyways I dont really feel like keeping my vote on Uberfish since that was a joke vote in retaliation to his joke notes

So Im trying to think on why Rowain is being such an ignoramoose and all I can think of is that he must have had a hangover

Therefore perhaps an extra vote will help him think more clearly

Rowain

[Injera]

Sorry everyone I haven't been around much or even voted yet today. The end of day 2 was a bit frustrating for me as I was never able to catch up to the thread by the time of the lynch. I've been having a reread with the scraper and it's taken a lot longer than I expected. I have about half a dozen people left to go so I should hopefully be able to finish up before bed.

I would like to say, though, that I think a Selrahc lynch is a bad idea. He's made a few comments but they haven't moved the discussion at all, and he's not making any meaningful votes. If he's a wolf, he's not really influencing the game. This is going to be a long game most likely, so it's not something we need to address right away.

Now, Ichabod.

a) Lots of defense on thestick, almost to the point of possibly being called too obvious.

My "preemptive" post explains my reasoning for why I did what I did. Ultimately you can believe it or not, but it's the absolute truth.

b) His battle with Gaspar. [...] But all the attention he gave to gaspar disappeared as soon as day 2 started and Gaspar moved to other targets. He said that reevaluation was needed, so maybe that was it.

Yes, I laid off on Day 1 once it became clear that Gaspar and I were arguing about different things. Day 2, the village had just dragged a wolf to the gallows with me along kicking and screaming, I was trying to look at things from a fresh perspective.

Why this is suspicious? Because Injera was the only player to find that post I made about Gaspar a good one. This post I made was the one that made mostly everyone vote against me. But it was not the case of Injera, he voted for me on a pretty flimsy reasoning

Okay, let me explain this. At the point I voted for you were next in line after Sareln on my suspicions list. It was late at night for me and Sareln was engaged and acting like a good villager. He didn't seem scummy any more, so rather than leave my vote on him I moved down to you. It was too late for me to type out my reasons. At the time my main reasons for you were your a) I felt your defense was scummy, in particular the "Lewwyn did it too" defense, but also what I perceived you turning inwards for your defense, and b) your spat with uberfish which seemed like you were stuck in Day 1 thinking. Maybe that's not a fair complaint- well, actually, in retrospect it was at least partially unfair because I had completely missed a couple of your posts, including the Mattimeo one- but that was my mindset at the time.

So, I wake up and do some things and get to the thread the next day and realize I needed to write down my case against you. Unfortunately there had been an incredible amount of posts made during that time that I was simultaneously trying to read, and my posts were admittedly a bit half-assed.

He never really explained what the "big ideas" were. Can you see why this is wrong? His vote on me is due to the fact that I didn't catch all the good lynches that could have been made. The lynches that he, apparently, caught.
This seems like a made up justification, due to the fact that just following the vote on me would be bad, since he actually liked my "totally scum post".

I don't want to go too far into the woodwork here, but this just isn't what I tried to say at all. I never called anything you did "totally scum" or anything similar. I didn't vote for you- and never said I did- because I thought you should have picked up on better reads. What I meant was that I perceived that your thought process was dominated by things that didn't take into account what had happened the day before.

Anyway, my conclusion is that there's nothing in Injera play pointing to villager. I haven't seen one useful contribution, with my analysis in hindsight.

Could be a cautious wolf play and I'd expect that from Injera. Right now, Injera seems to be a good target for me

I agree with others that this game has been quite a bit more mean-spirited then previous games, and I'm trying to not get hot-headed here, but this is just insulting and incoherent.

[Mattimeo]

..and apparently I *can* actually get internet here, despite everything official saying there should be none.

On the other hand, at a LAN... so not sure how much attention I'll be paying to Werewolf...

[Tasunke]

all this talk about 'lets not lynch the lurkers' makes me think most the wolves are lurkers. I suppose we will find out later.

[Lewwyn]

Read Ichabod's posts this morning and some of what he said made good sense.

That post you quoted, Rowain, is one that you can make with little read time = little time of internet access. Why? Becuase it relies only on the most easy to catch info of the thread (even skimming very fast you would see that Novice had a PR) and in your own thoughts about the topic. I'd say that post clearly shows Selrahc doesn't have time, not the opposite.

This makes sense actually now that I look at it from this perspective. I'm NOT willing to take Selrahc off my suspect list, but I'm willing to bump him down.

By the way, Molach is also in heavy lurker mode (not the usual light lurker mode from villager Molach), but I seem to reccall him saying he would have something to do. And Mattimeo is also pretty suspicious. His vote on me today was very bad. If it wasn't for his claim, he'd be very high in my suspect list.

Molach is interesting. I went back and looked at a few of his posts and thought he was actually pretty normal Molach the first half of the game so far, but that he really has dropped off. He's also a symbol of what's currently ailing this game. Too many lurkers. Do I suspect him... not enough to currently vote for him. Too many other worse, IMO, lurkers.

I can buy the PR on novice, but I can't buy the one on Meiz. Meiz was starting to get heat and then this happens? Why not restrict a more cleared villager, why not wait? There's something fishy about this, in my opinion, but since I can't yet put my finger on it, I think it can wait. besides, why not use this absurdly harmful post restriction on Novice? The "quotes restriction" is harmful, but not that harmful...

I both agree and disagree with this. I agree its weird not to use the more harmful restriction on Novice. But I disagree that Meiz was "starting to get heat". I thought of him as pretty clean before the PR. Novice also thought Meiz was pretty innocent. Only Gaspar stated anything suspicious of Meiz. So, no, I think you are very wrong about that. Again reading that makes me feel like you are twisting facts to make it seem like there's more suspicion than there is... phantom bandwagon much?

The way that people have been viewing the PRs with distrust makes me think its much less likely a wolf would draw more attention to themselves with a PR. You do say "it can wait" and I wholeheartedly agree with that. Let's not go meta.

The part of the Injera post that intrigued me most:

Day 2, when he was not being attacked like in day 1 (attacks made by Gaspar), was way more contentless. It has a lot of small posts and questions. He voted for Sareln and after some people defended Sareln (like Gaspar), he changed his vote to me, with flimsy justification. Interesting to notice that he never said anything about me before that vote (other than something about Qgqqqq saying that there was enough attackers on me being strange).

That was really important to me. This is very similar to last Injerawolf who fooled me Day 1 and then came out Day 2 without anything of value. I made an initial read on Injera on Day 1 and I've pretty much stuck with it. Day 2 the only thing I remember of him is voting for Ichabod, which at the time was good in my mind , but now I don't really remember as much substance behind the vote. But hell I can't complain when people follow me after I make a good case can I? Afterall in the end thats what catherding is all about. I'm less convinced of Injera's innocence then I was before and if that forces Injera to prove his innocence more than that can only be a good thing.

My overall feelings after reading your posts, Ichabod, is that you're less suspicious. I still have doubts. Though, maybe I was wrong and got provoked to the way you tied yourself to me? I'm still thinking about it and need to go back and read it the initial few posts again while keeping current Ichabod in mind.

As for how it informs today, I was originally planning on switching off of Selrahc at this point and going after Ichabod for the rest of the day, but as I said his latest posts have given me pause. I actually really agree about Arromir who reminds me of Slowcheetah on his first day out (he was a wolf). However... the one I really want to go after is Catwalk.

This Catwalk case has been building since day 1, and I simply cannot see anyone else I think we should lynch more. Some may say that he's acting like catwalk and that he's acting normal and that indicates he's a villager, but here's the thing. He makes all these scummy posts and then says, yeah that may be scummy. And we all walk it off. It is simply incredible how we're all just letting him bob at the surface with a vote here and there, but then we go vote elsewhere in the end. Its like everyone suspects him, but because of that he's TOO obvious. Well I'm here to say, sometimes obvscum is simply obvscum, hiding in plain sight.

I have a few hours this afternoon so I'm going to trawl through his posts and give you my final thoughts. I might take a nap first though...

[pindicator]

Lewwyn, dammit. You stole my thunder. I started putting day 3 posts into my spreadsheet and on the very first one of the day.

Ouch, bad break for the village. GG Bigger and Serdoa.

Sometimes you see a post and you wonder "how the hell did I miss that the first time?"

Catwalk

[Injera]

Lewwyn, dammit. You stole my thunder. I started putting day 3 posts into my spreadsheet and on the very first one of the day.

Hehe. Wow. I had just written a lengthy response to Lewwyn talking about how, based on my ongoing reread, the single most important thing I noticed was how that Catwalk's posts seemed crazy at the time but were much more reasonable if you looked at them all lined up in a row, due to his consistent emotional curve. I might be terrible at this.

So, do you think it's a real slip-up? It's not a determiner issue because you can't swap out any others for the 'the'. 'our' would be a villager pronoun but that would be painfully off.

Also, I'm glad you stopped blowing smoke up my ass Lewwyn, I was getting suspicious.

[Gaspar]

I haven't had much to add because Rowain seems to be employing the thestick defense. I haven't seen anything today to change my mind that he's the best lynch choice.

[Injera]

Actually, thinking about it I don't know if it's that off. The issue is that he refers to 'the village' as something external, but I'm used to some oddities with non-native speakers. If he had said, "Bad break for the team" would it stick out as much?

[pindicator]

Hehe. Wow. I had just written a lengthy response to Lewwyn talking about how, based on my ongoing reread, the single most important thing I noticed was how that Catwalk's posts seemed crazy at the time but were much more reasonable if you looked at them all lined up in a row, due to his consistent emotional curve. I might be terrible at this.

So, do you think it's a real slip-up? It's not a determiner issue because you can't swap out any others for the 'the'. 'our' would be a villager pronoun but that would be painfully off.

If you're village why qualify it at all? Why even think of the village as a distant thing? If you're village you think, "Damn, that sucks" If you're not village you think "sucks for the village"