WW16: The Outlaws and The Olives

[uberfish]

Ah, we're back to Thestick's failure to vote bigger.

There were a whole lot of people who could have moved to bigger with thestick if they wanted to, we now have confirmed that there were enough town on that move to provide some cover - Sareln must have looked like an easy mislynch, I might have looked like one too at the time, and Mero initiated the move.

I think the probable scenario, then, is that the mafia were quite capable of saving thestick if they so chose but decided not to. Therefore I'm now leaning innocent on Catwalk. Pind gets no town cred for this, because he switched to Mero which could be an early attempt to frame the move as scummy.

Consider the scenario in which bigger was lynched and flipped town d1: it's highly likely that thestick would have been up on the block again soon enough. He could potentially have used his fake claim to try and fabricate a watcher guilty on someone, but I think it'd be hard for him to win that 1v1 without scum exposing themselves to support him.

So, then, if mafia decided to sacrifice a decently strong power role. there's no way they don't try to extract as much cover from that as possible by putting people on thestick's wagon.

End of d1 votecount.

thestick- 9 - zakalwe, novice, Bigger, tasunke, Mattimeo, Arromir, Serdoa, Twinkletoes89, Molach

I'm still leaning village on novice but he's nowhere even close to confirmed. anyway it doesn't look like a really early bus. Tas moves to thestick after the Matt flash wagon starts but before Matt claims. If Matt is village, then that looks like a townish move on Tas' part. Arromir is probably scum. TT (and pind who hopped off later) also likely candidates. Molach, I'm not sure either way.

Bigger- 8 - Rowain, Lewwyn, Injera, Jkaen, Sareln, Merovech, uberfish, Catwalk

I think rowain and lewwyn are doing what they normally do as town here. Injera suspicious. Jkaen I don't know.

Injera- 2 - Gaspar, Waterbat
Waterbat- 1 - Azza
uberfish- 1 - Qgqqqqq
Gaspar- 1 - Selrahc
Jkaen- 1 - Meiz
Merovech- 1 - Pindicator

Ok, we have 2 suspicious lurkers in Azza and Selrahc here, gaspar's either town or playing a very good scum game and I wouldn't touch him for now, Waterbat I am increasingly getting a bad gut feeling on, Qqqqq is extremely "bleh", leaning towards Meiz being town and busy on day 2 with the main question mark on him being "possibly faking a post restriction", Pind's definitely a suspect

Hmm who did I have as town or leaning town... novice? rowain lewwyn gaspar meiz cat matt? tas? Not sure if I'm subconsciously biased towards players whose style I am familiar with here. Bleh.

[Jkaen]

Theorethically, each post restriction means a cleared villager and at this rate, the game would be easy for the village soon.

I believe the wolves will (or have already) give one of their own a post restriction (or not assign one and let them fake it) Hnce I dont think being restricted is any kind of tell.

I have answered your other point as well. And no I don't campaign for a lynch. I didn't do it for Bigger , I didn't do it for pindi and I won't do it for Selrahc (or any othe suspect).
I give reason why I vote the way I do, I answer questions but I don't campaign. You can accept it or not thats your problem. As far as I know both my questions to the various people as their answers are public visible so everyone here can read them and draw their own conclusions which is BTW also a way to find scum.

Rowain, you are famous for your crusades, and for campaigning to get your target strung up, so I don't buy this

Really? As far as I see I have answered your accusations and the questons. But do what you want try to lynch me but for someone who loved to run his mouth how stupid various villagers were your play isn't any better. So when ever you lurk after this game STFU in the luker-thread you ain't so good & smart as you paint yourself in them.

Today seemed full of this sort of defense, which is just basic name calling, rather than actually reasoning with anybody, its also very easy to do as a wolf

I know this is a somewhat laughable statement given my visible contribution, but I really don't feel that the effort I've been putting into this game has been worth it recently.

Catwalk

I don't think he's necessarily scum, but I believe Merovech's claim. Relatedly, I'm starting to see the skepticism over Mattimeo's 'nom du guerre'.

Initially I took this to be a village tell, but re-reading maybe Injera knew the village part of it was true, and didnt stop to question the PR aspect

Really makes me wish I had been around - I think the village has been misled and suckered.

If I had to bet, I would put it all on his claim being true

Misled from who, by who?

Novice, uberfish and Qgqqqqq

I am certain that at least one of you is a wolf, if not two.

Especially Novice & Uber, you were so quick to try and discredit Mero's claim and you were both explicit and vocal on getting the swing to lynch him.

Villagers, for fuck's sake look past these people and lets lynch one of them tomorrow.

Based on realising the claim was wrong, do you still find these 3 suspicious?

There's a silver lining. Wolves would have to assume Mero was telling the truth, so if Catwalk is a villager, those who were arguing that Mero was lying seem pretty villagerish to me.

Why would the wolves have to assume the truth any more than we did?

If Catwalk is a villager, scum don't care who hangs. So why draw attention to yourself by arguing against a claim that will be confirmed to be true when Mero flips?

Because you feel that one of them would be more mislynchable? (I don't understand the Mero wagon at all (until the fake claim))

I'm sorry I thought my WTF was big enough to cover everyone.

[Jkaen]

Oh, and with some grumbling I will follow the group decision and park Selrahc for now. Still see nothing to put us off Catwalk or Rowain for tomorrow however

[Azza]

Was that awful claim of Merovech's even necessary? Was 7-5, very slight momentum heading his direction, but I wouldn't have been expecting him to get lynched from there. Then the fake claim seals his death.

Also: (emhpasis mine)

Just saying, but that seems a reasonably sizable 'if' at this time. I'd think there's a chance (low, sure, but still not to be dismissed) that the claim was fortunate break for the scum, getting Catwalk off the block with a swin that wouldn't seem all that suspicious.

People jumping on said wagon:
Gaspar
Meiz (no reasoning, but that is perhaps understandable given the circumstances)
Rowain
Azza (no reasoning)

Doubt there'd be more than one scum there, even if it is the case that Catwalk is scum, but still...

I flipped solely because of the wtf fake claim, and still feel strongly that Catwalk is suspicious.

[Rowain]

@rowain, it was just a joke referring to your alleged tendency to complain to the gm about rules violations when you're scum.

Really? the last time a GM said he has been questioned about a rule-violation it was not me but zak and he used it even to attack me claiming that I was it. So perhaps you take abit more care with your statements.

And thestick did not even attack me . Ichabod corrected this, http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showpost....count=1214
No comments, Gaspar?

Strange how often Gaspar makes attacks with invented reasoning/obmitting posts etc this game.

Waterbat and rowain what do you make of the timing of Azza's showing up?

I find it strange that someone was didn't post for more than 30 hours but manages to make the killing vote on a villager right on time (With Meiz going to Selrahc it was 8:7.1).

Rowain, you are famous for your crusades, and for campaigning to get your target strung up, so I don't buy this

I think you will find also village-games where I don't campaign. What do you make out that Gaspar has misread posts/obmitted posts to make his attacks on Meiz and me?

[Jkaen]

I will have a check at the misremembered posts, but so far I know a fair few others have done it including me.

[Twinkletoes89]

Novice, you make another really confusing statement when you say that a protector should protect uberfish tonight.

Why on earth would they target someone who has garnered a significant amount of lynch votes at different times? Surely you are a much more likely target.

To answer you Jkaen, while my idiot idea was wrong, I still suspect novice and uberfish.

And if someone other than novice is night killed tonight then I think we may have to address why he is still alive.

[Jkaen]

Right Rowain, I assume you are refering here to Gaspars post #1227, when he lays out his claims about you.

So this is a recap of your game so far, which if I had to guess at that time covered about 75 posts? If so missing some out and summarising is the only approach that makes sense, so omitted posts is perfectly reasonable, onto misreading posts:

1. Piggybacking Novice - you quote novice say agreed and echo his vote... looks like a fair call to me

2. Passive thestick defense - there is a defense there saying you believe his play is similar to how his PR play would be

3. The starts out night 2 comment is wrong, you had already posted suspicions on other people (402 & 403... but while you say an awful lot it all seems to be a summary of what happened with little opinion)

4. Post 406 I agree with discredit Novice, 408 I dont think you do at all, 412 maybe slight discredit. So I think he overstates his case here

5. posts 504 and 540 are early votes with a lets see where this is going feel to me, I think Gaspar reads too much into this

6. The 9 posts - He is correct, you do ask a lot of questions, or do no content posts without giving your feel on any matters, and that is a fairly scummy play


In summary there is a mild exageration in one or two of his posts, but generally I don't see what you are upset about, much less how you could make a case against him from it

[Jkaen]

Novice, you make another really confusing statement when you say that a protector should protect uberfish tonight.

Why on earth would they target someone who has garnered a significant amount of lynch votes at different times? Surely you are a much more likely target.

To answer you Jkaen, while my idiot idea was wrong, I still suspect novice and uberfish.

And if someone other than novice is night killed tonight then I think we may have to address why he is still alive.

I don't really agree here. While I would expect Novice to be main target if he is village, neither of the current WW kills have had me shouting "WTF why not Novice". And even now there are a number of people I could see being alternate targets (although I do agree I would not list Uberfish as one of them)

[Jkaen]

I'm getting village reads on enough people that it's getting hard to fit six wolf suspects.

Something like
Thestick, Lewwyn, Ichabod, Rowain/Qgqqq, Azza/Tasunke, Selrach/Molach/Arromir would work though.

If we have a protector he should protect Uberfish.

Actually touching on this, as I caught this before I re-read all the stuff I missed yesterday, my initial thought was 'oh I wonder what PR uberfish claimed' I was quite surprised to see there wasn't one, as that was the only reason it made sense to me to protect him.