WW16: The Outlaws and The Olives

[Azza]

I'm going to put my vote on Lewwyn for now.

[Gaspar]

Just went back and re-read the point between the Mattimeo lynch and my comment to see how I felt afterwards. Not as much as I originally thought, but here's what I thought tonight:

Yeah, I wish I would have put the pieces together before that. I was certainly asked the question time and time again, but you put it together :D So kudos waterbat. Maybe I can take you down off my suspect list now,
But you're right, Mattimeo did a great job of acting the part - I was reading posts 751 & 752 by him at the end of the day and it was a great job acting by him.

I've waffled on Pindicator all game, but this post just reeked of justifying, which struck me as an odd reaction at the point. You could feel the emotion pouring out of the thread at that point and this is the part where it breaks. I get feeling guilty you missed it but I was still thinking "this is awesome" while reading even though I wasn't part of it. Dunno, just struck me as odd.

Posting between classes and my students are reading over my shoulder, but I wante dto quickly chime in:

WOW

also

Called it.

All about me. ME. ME I AM MOST IMPORTANT PERSON IN THE THREAD EVEN THOUGH WE JUST KILLED A MAFIA PR. I don't recall Lewwyn being this self-absorbed.

Ichabod's reasoning for shutting down the Mattimeo wagon made sense at the time. Gaspar and Pindicator seemed to work against the Mattimeo wagon. Jkaen was hesitant to get on.

This bugged me at the time, because Ichabod and I basically said the same thing in the thread. There's a whole sequence of posts overnight though where novice appears an aggressive scumhunter, but really more what he's doing is trying to frame the narrative of the game to reflect him in the best possible light - or otherwise known as what Commodore does in every Civ game when its obvious he's fucked up. :oldwink: Obviously he was doing this to set the next days lynch priorities, as evidenced by his immediate push on me, but I actually don't think it makes a lot of sense when scum-hunting to frame the narrative so tightly - ideally, you want to leave things pretty vague so that the scum will screw up. Again, I've highlighted the part about me but this was pretty much the sum of all novice's conversation that night:

"Here, let me tell you what you should think about today's events."

Need more of a smoking gun for that, I think, like the scooter lynch in WW2 or such.

Anyway, I think novice is mostly just doing that "fall victim to your own success" thing that zak is famous for and I've been known to fall prey to myself. Hopefully he snaps out of it and resumes fruitful scumhunting.

As far as Lewwyn and Pindicator well, probably my top two suspects so I feel good about them being top of the leaderboard right now. I feel pretty good about a wolf from there and 1 from the Selrahc/Molach/Azza group. Lot of candidates for the rest, but hopefully a few more good days will reveal that more easily.

[Lewwyn]

Was up late last night celebrating the end of the week because we've got a 9 day vacation now. Good old mooncake festival. Anyway somebody loves me:

So to think we have some completely disorganized team just screwing up left and right just doesn't fit the evidence IMO. I think we have some quality scum leaders and some solid blenders. And right now, I think Lewwyn has contributed absolutely nothing this game and looks like a good bet for one of our experienced blenders.

Ridiculous. So now you're passing judgement on the wolves skill to fit a theory. Cart before the horse much? How is that I've become a blender? Personally, I don't see myself much as a follower, also evidenced by my keen ability to dedlurk civ games. But really... I mean I don't even know how to respond to this except that... I feel I have contributed as best I could.

Rowain agrees with Gaspar's above statement:

Absolutly agree with this. the fact that we don't have anymore postrestrictions also points heavily in that direction.

Uh right explain to me how not having post restrictions points to an organized wolfpack? How do you know?? I mean I look at the post restrictions and I think, is it on purpose or not that there haven't been anymore? I simply can't tell what thats a sign of. Frankly I don't think its relevant. The PRs are a null tell IMO and are simply a distraction. The fact they you bring them up and try to use them as part of the argument to point towards an organize wolfpack, or me, seems a bit scummy to me.

I'll give some support for Gaspar, mainly because there's something strange about Lewwyn in this game. I found his attack on me to be pretty in character, and he made an effort to present a case, not just follow. But after my defense, his reaction was something like: "meh, you defended". He took a posture of whatever, not sure if you are good or bad, whatever. And I didn't like that.

So, before doing anymore indept research: Lewwyn.

Good job Ichabod. Some thing strange about me, even though you say I'm acting in character. I attacked you Day 2, I attacked Catwalk Day 3, Before the end of Day 4 I went to bed the village was a mess and there was ANOTHER role claim while I was asleep. How am I supposed to give my reaction to that?? And as for me reacting as if I backed off you because you defended that's NOT TRUE! Go back and look. Day 2 you defended against me twice and I still pursued lynching you. Day 3 I thought you were actually "useful" in attacks you were making, you seemed vilagery to me. If someone seems villagery to me I'm not going to keep attacking them! I'm not some fucking maniac!

Someone else who seems to agree with you that I'm strange this game:

Lewwyn: not exactly been crusading a lot lately, has he?

I don't understand this. I basically crusaded Day 2 and 3, but the only difference from other games is my targets didn't get lynched. I don't think you can pin that on me. I was actively trying to lynch Ichabod and Catwalk on respective days. Now Catwalk I'm sure is innocent, Ichabod somewhere in the middle.

we cannot wait until late in the day to push seriously on lewwyn (or Azza for that matter). They are likely gone leading up until lynch time so will not be able to defend past a certain point.

lewwyn

Right so come at me now bro, I'll defend the mislynch till at least 4-5 hours before the lynch.

Back to more ridiculousness from Gaspar.

Lewwyn is a blender - no previous wolf experience. You, me, Ichabod and Rowain would be the only realistic alphas.

I'm not saying we should look at novice right now, Catwalk, I was just responding to Rowain. I'm on Lewwyn primarily because his game has felt scummy, That it also fits my theory is just gravy.

Wouldn't a blender need MORE previous wolf experience? This whole argument seems counter intuitive if not just plain wrong. Rowain rightly points out later that I've played scum on another forum. So the fact that it actually doesn't fit your theory. I'm not even sure what I'm defending against here.

So where does that leave me. Confused about Gaspar. I think Gaspar is reacting to my vote on him earlier. I didn't put a lot of reasoning into the vote against him other than "I knew him". So he responds with a full attack because... he thinks I'm blending? Ehhhhh. No, I'm playing three blind mice. Poke three people with a stick and see how the run. Pindi, Gaspar and Azza.

What do I think about Gaspar... I think he's more coherent than this and I think he has a broken radar when it comes to me, much the same as I do with Catwalk. Today has made me think Gaspar has scum potential, but he's also a bit lower on my list.

Currently I'm looking at it like this:

Pidicator
Azza
Gaspar

Pidicator only reached top status after this:

Call me crazy, but after re-reading the end of day 1 again (hypocrite, i know)

Catwalk

So for now Pindicator.

Need to look more closely at Tas.

[Lewwyn]

All about me. ME. ME I AM MOST IMPORTANT PERSON IN THE THREAD EVEN THOUGH WE JUST KILLED A MAFIA PR. I don't recall Lewwyn being this self-absorbed.

Oh LMAO. Now you're just making shit up. Now I have to defend myself by saying I'm self-absorbed? That's fine with me. I'm always self absorbed. I mean most of my scum catches come from times when I interact with scum and then read them based on how they react from me.

Think about this I go to bed frustrated with my inability do shit and I make a post about it. Then I wake up in the morning and read what happens. I think my reaction says it all.


Azza voting for me? WHAT A SURPRISE!

[waterbat]

welcome Lewwyn,

I really have liked Gaspar's read on the game the past day or two. He's putting the puzzles together in a way I understand. When I asked Gaspar for those thoughts about the post-game reactions - I had that exact pindicator post in mind. I put a vote in on him partly because of it.

So, of course, I like that you ended up on pindicator. I have a big problem though - i am easily convinced by any kind of defense - and I sort of bought his.

what's your take on the novice "framing the narrative" argument that Gaspar put forth? It dovetails with Tasunke or Twinkletoes (have to check) saying things were a bit "too convenient" regarding novice.

[pindicator]

At least someone saw my vote. It had gone long enough without a comment I was starting to wonder. My defense of that vote is to ask people to re-read posts 253 (where matt claims) until 341 (end of day). If they don't see anything that looks contrived in the hindsight of knowing mattimeo and thestick were both wolves then so be it. But we are here to examine stuff, right? Not just attack people for voting and bringing up things.

Going to bed now. I'll try to get up a little earlier so I can reply in the morning before work.

[pindicator]

I guses I better explain that better - I mean, what do you not like about my catwalk vote? You think he's solidly village for being on mattimeo? Why not re-examine how he got onto mattimeo instead of taking his word at it. Hense my vote

[Azza]

<snip>

Azza voting for me? WHAT A SURPRISE!

Two people with more votes than me, so I chose the person who was voting for me.

[Lewwyn]

Trying to wrap my head around TT's reveal. I mean I understand where he's coming from, but at best the mislynch ends in him hitting scum and at worst ends in him killing another villager. I think with Arromir's mod-death we actually have half a kill to spare. Mathmatically using TTs ability creates a smaller barrel for the wolves to hide in while still providing the same amount of mislyches. I mean it could actually be a smart play logistically. But the high chance that novice is killed in addition to losing a nearly confirmed villager in TT sort of makes the whole thing not worth considering. Sorry TT I don't think we're going to lynch you. I don't think the wolves want to take the risk and I don't think the villagers do either, but I don't think you're crazy for proposing this plan. It's actually mathematically probably the correct move considering the wolves would need to nightkill another suspect instead of you.

[Lewwyn]

Two people with more votes than me, so I chose the person who was voting for me.

Again, what a surprise.

He also happens to be the one who is profferring that both you and pindi are wolves.

CAHOOTS!