WW16: The Outlaws and The Olives

[pindicator]

Sure, I'm on board. Catwalk isn't going anywhere for now, it seems

Selrahc

[Twinkletoes89]

Sell this Selrahc lynch to me guys.

What will we gain from it if he turns out scum or village?

[Lewwyn]

Here's the post where I think Lewwyn wnt "meh, whatever" with his case against me. This was a bit after day 2 ended:



It's not a smoking gun, but that little comment was the last one I remember Lewwyn saying about me. He neither clears me, nor accuses me. And he was really gunning for my neck on day 2. It felt strange after some time, when he didn't refer me anymore (at least that I can remember).

What are you braindead? This was Night 2. I woke up after the lynch and I read everything you wrote after I went to bed. I did not change my mind based on your defending but based on the attacks you made while I was asleep. If I had been awake I probably would have changed my vote before the lynch. Are you saying I should have continued to come after you even though I suddenly had new evidence that I thought made you less suspicious? I hate being wrong and I always try to correct my mistakes. The post you refer to ACCURATELY displays my feelings about those people at THAT time in which I was writing.

As for me not building a huge case on someone right now, I haven't had a huge scumtell that has set me off since Catwalk. Though you're seriously pushing me back towards suspecting you again Ichabod because this line of argument against me is weak and in my opinion contrived.

And I have to say there are plenty of games on here where I haven't had an A HA moment and launched a crusade or something. Just because when it does happen, its memorable, doesn't mean it happens all the time. Do you think I just magically get a telepathic message about who's scum?

Do you know how much time it takes to trawl through all these posts to come up with a case? It took about three full hours to put together my thoughts on you and even longer to do it for Catwalk. The size of the game has expanded insanely since then. This game is currently the longest thread in this forum. It has surpassed even WW3 which previous to this held the record by 500 posts. That's 500 posts more than the runner up WW game. And now this game is blowing that one up. My usual methods simply are too time consuming at this point. I don't care if you think that makes me more suspicious because this is making me pretty freaking tired. At some point someone will say something so scummy that I'll latch on and go digging, but that hasn't happened recently. I did it with waterbat on Day 4 and in the end I came away convinced of his innocence. If i had seen something about him that made me think he was scummy I would have gone all "AHA" on him. If I were scum I would have gone all "AHA" on him anyway!

The reason that this reasoning you have here makes me suspicious Ichabod is that you are again twisting what was said to suit your purpose. This is what I felt Day 2. During the latter part of Day 2, while I was asleep, I thought you dropped that element of your defense and went on the attack in a more forthright manner, but two things have since made me think I was wrong to give you village cred.

The first was this:

WTF, Lewwyn? You were going to vote for Mattimeo too!?!? You were the guy I thought was going to come with an enourmous WTF to everyone considering the idea. Seriously? This really makes me fear voting for either Catwalk and Injera, due to the people following (Meiz, Novice and Lewwyn, the Mattimeo followers).

Lewwyn up in the scumdar, by the way.

And why not Catwalk right now? Why Injera?

I'll wait to see what gaspar has to say about this.

This happened right after I voted Mattimeo during Day 4, before Injera revealed and before we decided put them aside and then while I was asleep returned to Mattimeo. Now this was not originally suspicious to me. But following the events of the day, yeah its super fishy. Ichabod condemns me for being willing to vote Mattimeo, then he goes through a crisis of faith during the latter part of the day with TT while he struggles to come to grips with voting Mattimeo himself:

Makes sense, I guess. After seeing the targets Mattimeo protected, I feel a sudden urge of lynching him. It was just terrible bad play. He risked being killed and lost the chance of protecting someone or blocking a wolf.

Maybe we have a tracker, as the wolves had a watcher. It would make sense. And I love how Mattimeo claim of protections cover all bases: he can still be useful, if he's village; he would give a null result everyday; he didn't need to justify why he protected someone.

Gah, stupid power role claims. I'm really torned about it. On one hand I want to lynch both Injera and Mattimeo. On the other, I find this bad play.

I thought about the situation some more and, considering meta, a wolf Injera would be very bad. 2 investigative roles for the wolves and none for the village? And what would the wolves need to investigate that much? We seem to be really lacking in power roles here, only the oh, so very good, masons.

So, metawise, Injera role seem to fit as the one of a villager. The risk-reward ratio also points against lynching Mattimeo. So, I keep having a very bad feeling of having my hands tied...

Damnit...

How could Injera confirm mattimeo if he would be cloacked, which is the same as a role block?

Ah, whatever, I'll just follow my heart here. If anyone wants to blame me for it afterwards, I don't care.

Mattimeo

To me this flys directly in the face of what he JUST called me scum for doing. The best part is this:

And if he's indeed Mafia, major props to TT.

What? Why does this feel so buddying? He denounced, then he says its bad play, then he votes anyway, then he congratulates TT on catching mafia BEFORE WE KNOW MATT IS MAFIA.

But then he backs off. He follows the wagon onto Selrahc and posts this:

Aren't you going to vote, Rowain?

By the way, is it just me or Rowain has been way more silent ever since he stopped being voted?

And regarding this post:

I find it not very Rowain-style to not have any of the "big names" in his suspect list. There's no gaspar, no novice, no Lewwyn... Does this make any sense to others?

Still want some answers to my Qgqqqq question. Sorry to be talking a lot, but I'm not feeling so well about our current lynch movement.

Going after Rowain here. I think this is weird. Why is it Rowain-style to go after big names? I thought it was Rowain style to pick fights and go after people he suspected, I didn't realize they HAD to be vets... I just felt this was extremely curious. Like it didn't belong.

Then Qg claims and Ichabod:

Well, considering that:

1. Believing in Qgqqqq is believing there's a tracker in the village and one in the Mafia (how would Injera know about Mattimeo no result if not for that?)

2. I think a tracker role is very weak, so when Injera made his claim, I'd jump at that very moment to accuse him on his lie, especially since I'd know he's a mafia power role (due to doing something to Catwalk). Losing my power is well worth it to catch a Mafia, way more than I'd believe it can accomplish.

I'll vote for Qgqqqq.

Pin momentarily agrees:

#2 is a good point.

Qgqqqqq

Before he switches back over to Selrahc. when he realizes they do different things.

Then Novice calls for the Matt lynch. Catwalk, Waterbat and Meiz switch first. Ichabod votes 5th.

Now all of this interesting to me because Ichabod seems like a different person from the first of these posts to the end. Personally, the way I read it is Ichabod WTFs about scumbuddy Matt's heat. Then he thinks that his stance was TOO hard and realizes at some point Matt has to be bussed. SO he allows himself to be convinced by TT when noone else is on Matt. He buddies up to TT by giving him major props for catching a wolf before he's caught, says he'll follow his heart and votes Matt. However he then follows on to Selrahc, talks about Rowain, votes to kill another power role in Qg and then when novice brings the hammer comes back to Matt for the bus. Am I reading you right Ichabod?

[Gaspar]

I can't get a solid read on Ichabod this game at all. Early on I was convinced he was scum but since then he's sounded a lot more like well-considered Ichabod. But I think Lewwyn brings up a good point - the size of this game has made it a lot harder for players who are short of time/lazy (I'm both.) Generally I get a "feel" tell on someone then I go do a re-read. Now I get a feel tell on someone and then have to wade through 5 pages of Catwalk arguing with [strike]an invisible man in a chair[/strike] Azza, Tansuke arguing with himself and Rowain arguing with everyone. :oldwink: Its just tough to parse so you remember your feels but you can't put together any good arguments. Kind of amazing we've caught two scum, really.

Anyway, while I could see the logic in Ichabod/Pindicator being a wolf pair I could also see the logic in any number of scenarios involving Lewwyn, so I'm not particularly energetic about any of this. The Selrahc wagon... meh, its a safe mislynch but I don't think it tells us much, Selrahc's been a safe yet reasonable place to park a vote all game due his PYFT (Post your fucking tell, in this case) rating being roughly equivalent to everyone playing PBEM38 at the moment. So I'd only get excited about him if we had nothing going on.

I feel like if we don't lynch Pindicator, we're just going to keep having the same damned conversation everyday. So let's get it over with and he's either scum or we stop wasting 20 posts everyday discussing all the scummy stuff he's done that's too scummy to actually be scum. Or something.

[Injera]

Pindicator[/b], we're just going to keep having the same damned conversation everyday. So let's get it over with and he's either scum or we stop wasting 20 posts everyday discussing all the scummy stuff he's done that's too scummy to actually be scum. Or something.

Who actually started this bolding of the names thing? Or whatever. Not liking my company on Pind.

Going after Rowain here. I think this is weird. Why is it Rowain-style to go after big names? I thought it was Rowain style to pick fights and go after people he suspected, I didn't realize they HAD to be vets... I just felt this was extremely curious. Like it didn't belong.

Yeah, I agree with the sentiment but I can't tell if you're cherry-picking here.
I'm pretty sure Rowain and I have butted heads against going against new players before so it's a shitty argument (Ich's, not your's.)

Hmm, it's Friday let's try a reboot. Meiz, I feared you when I was a wolf. Where's the thunder?

[Selrahc]

What will we gain from it if he turns out scum or village?

If I turn out scum, you'll get a bit of an indication that Tasunke is innocent, probably a hefty dose of suspicion on Novice(except he is probably going to be instrumental in getting me hung). Probably some more stuff based on more tentative reasoning as well, like looking at people who I haven't talked about when I probably could have, or trying to slot me into some scum profile in part of a "blender, lurker, alpha" lineup. Not a lot of stuff...

If I turn out village, little of use is going to be revealed. My votes have only interacted meaningfully with one of the lynches before today, and I haven't really pressured many people. My pushing on Tasunke isn't really going to gain any more weight, since it's just based on my read without any additional info. There will be a little revealed in seeing that I was a valid person for the wolves to push to try and get a mislynch, and that there has always been an undercurrent pushing for my lynch through the game, trying to keep the suspicion on me high.

[Meiz]

You want to read day 4 where I'm the one to point out injera & qgqqqqq have in fact mixed up their roles and have different roles? I bet you'll find a way to twist that as being scummy too.

Sorry, but I have to comment here. Qgqq pointed it himself. It was obvious at that point. No villager creds for you.

[Meiz]

Selrahc, you forgot "we kill a wolf" part.

@injera, you need to be a bit more specific. It's sunny outside.

[Lewwyn]

Yeah, I agree with the sentiment but I can't tell if you're cherry-picking here.
I'm pretty sure Rowain and I have butted heads against going against new players before so it's a shitty argument (Ich's, not your's.)

I hadn't even intended to vote Ichabod when I started the post. At first I want to answer his comments on me then I went back to that post that had bugged me and I read the rest of the day. As I was doing it I saw Ich's post on Rowain and it just jumped out as out of place and poor reasoning. I just added it into my post because I didn't see anywhere else to comment on it.

[pindicator]

Sorry, but I have to comment here. Qgqq pointed it himself. It was obvious at that point. No villager creds for you.

You want to point me to the post? I'm going over day 4 now (trying to get it in the spreadsheet before i head to sleep) and I just reviewed Qgqqqqq's posts. No dice.

Now, because I love shooting down my own credibility, I did find that jkaen had posted this before i had:

Wait Injera, you are a watcher not a tracker?

But nobody seemed to catch on and votes continued to go on Qgqqqqq after he posted this. The votes didn't start going off of Qgqqqqq until I juxtaposed both their claims on post 2039 posted here and novice quoted plus voted off Qgqqqqq a little later on 2046.

So yes, I'm going to claim it and take some pride that I'm not a total fuck-up this game, thank you very much.


Now, back to looking for scum....

Catwalk, let's assume I'm starting to believe you are village (because my day 4 re-read makes it really easy to second guess my earlier convictions). Can you help me decide on an alternate theory by confirming if you have or have not ever claimed in thread? I mean, I can look it up tomorrow, but I would rather spend those hours doing something fun.