WW16: The Outlaws and The Olives

[Catwalk]

What would be a suspicious way to defend scum and what would not be suspicious?

[novice]

I had been thinking tasunke, but trying to look back at the formation of the Mattimeo bandwagon led me to this post. So I'm less convinced on that front.

Hm, yeah, that's a good post by Tasunke. Thanks for sharing.

I also have a hunch on waterbat, but nothing to really prove it.

Could you try explaining why you have that hunch?

Is there a particular post/series of posts I should look be looking at? Because I think that defending someone who turns out to be scum isn't inherently suspicious, it depends how it's done.

Start here and read the next four or five posts by Ichabod.
http://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/showt...post296969

His posts basically shamed everyone into moving their vote off Mattimeo.

[waterbat]

Likely not around at deadline. Yesterday, I was happy for the delay, but forgot about deadline implications. I may have my phone.

Ok with Ichabod. ichabod's defense of Matt falls into the "would a wolf really do that??" territory.

[novice]

Can anyone remember if Tasunke explained why he didn't vote Mattimeo yesterday? Was he away when the final push happened?

Waterbat, why did you switch from Thestick to Injera on day one?

[waterbat]

Maybe azza has a hunch that I might be village. Hard to tell.

[waterbat]

Explained that a long while ago, novice. No time now.

[Gaspar]

Azza basically walks into the thread and then gets berated by Catwalk, as has gone on for days now. I probably wouldn't be even making the effort he is in that instance.

I'm curious to see what, if any, movement occurs given our current set of candidates.

[Ichabod]

What are you braindead? This was Night 2. I woke up after the lynch and I read everything you wrote after I went to bed. I did not change my mind based on your defending but based on the attacks you made while I was asleep. If I had been awake I probably would have changed my vote before the lynch. Are you saying I should have continued to come after you even though I suddenly had new evidence that I thought made you less suspicious? I hate being wrong and I always try to correct my mistakes. The post you refer to ACCURATELY displays my feelings about those people at THAT time in which I was writing.

As for me not building a huge case on someone right now, I haven't had a huge scumtell that has set me off since Catwalk. Though you're seriously pushing me back towards suspecting you again Ichabod because this line of argument against me is weak and in my opinion contrived.

And I have to say there are plenty of games on here where I haven't had an A HA moment and launched a crusade or something. Just because when it does happen, its memorable, doesn't mean it happens all the time. Do you think I just magically get a telepathic message about who's scum?

Do you know how much time it takes to trawl through all these posts to come up with a case? It took about three full hours to put together my thoughts on you and even longer to do it for Catwalk. The size of the game has expanded insanely since then. This game is currently the longest thread in this forum. It has surpassed even WW3 which previous to this held the record by 500 posts. That's 500 posts more than the runner up WW game. And now this game is blowing that one up. My usual methods simply are too time consuming at this point. I don't care if you think that makes me more suspicious because this is making me pretty freaking tired. At some point someone will say something so scummy that I'll latch on and go digging, but that hasn't happened recently. I did it with waterbat on Day 4 and in the end I came away convinced of his innocence. If i had seen something about him that made me think he was scummy I would have gone all "AHA" on him. If I were scum I would have gone all "AHA" on him anyway!

The reason that this reasoning you have here makes me suspicious Ichabod is that you are again twisting what was said to suit your purpose. This is what I felt Day 2. During the latter part of Day 2, while I was asleep, I thought you dropped that element of your defense and went on the attack in a more forthright manner, but two things have since made me think I was wrong to give you village cred.

The first was this:



This happened right after I voted Mattimeo during Day 4, before Injera revealed and before we decided put them aside and then while I was asleep returned to Mattimeo. Now this was not originally suspicious to me. But following the events of the day, yeah its super fishy. Ichabod condemns me for being willing to vote Mattimeo, then he goes through a crisis of faith during the latter part of the day with TT while he struggles to come to grips with voting Mattimeo himself:





To me this flys directly in the face of what he JUST called me scum for doing. The best part is this:



What? Why does this feel so buddying? He denounced, then he says its bad play, then he votes anyway, then he congratulates TT on catching mafia BEFORE WE KNOW MATT IS MAFIA.

But then he backs off. He follows the wagon onto Selrahc and posts this:



Going after Rowain here. I think this is weird. Why is it Rowain-style to go after big names? I thought it was Rowain style to pick fights and go after people he suspected, I didn't realize they HAD to be vets... I just felt this was extremely curious. Like it didn't belong.

Then Qg claims and Ichabod:



Pin momentarily agrees:



Before he switches back over to Selrahc. when he realizes they do different things.

Then Novice calls for the Matt lynch. Catwalk, Waterbat and Meiz switch first. Ichabod votes 5th.

Now all of this interesting to me because Ichabod seems like a different person from the first of these posts to the end. Personally, the way I read it is Ichabod WTFs about scumbuddy Matt's heat. Then he thinks that his stance was TOO hard and realizes at some point Matt has to be bussed. SO he allows himself to be convinced by TT when noone else is on Matt. He buddies up to TT by giving him major props for catching a wolf before he's caught, says he'll follow his heart and votes Matt. However he then follows on to Selrahc, talks about Rowain, votes to kill another power role in Qg and then when novice brings the hammer comes back to Matt for the bus. Am I reading you right Ichabod?

Ok, Lewwyn, you make a case against me regarding my Mattimeo defense/vote and you decide to only not quote the post where I explain my change of mind about it when Novice asked. This one:

Ichabod, you spoke very strongly against a Mattimeo lynch, so strongly that you chased everyone away from voting him, and now you want to lynch him. What changed?

The reason behind waiting for Mattimeo was to get more info, since we alrady had him tied with his claim. We got more info, in the claim made by Injera, so now we could make a more reasonable guess about his alignment.

But the key thing was what Mattimeo claims to have done. I found his actions to be very poor. Partly because I thought he was also a roleblocker, so protect someone like you would be perfect (likely innocent - deceptive wolf contradiction -> high chance of saving or blocking). But, yeah, if he's not also a roleblocker, it's slightly better.

But, overall, I don't like that we got sidetracked of Injera due to a claim and now there doesn't seem to be good options to pursue. I guess my own advice should have been used here, waiting is better for now. But something is really bugging me and my paranoia levels are growing fast. I feel we are going in circles... There seem to be so little to go for that the wolves have to be hiding in a place like lurking or in this claims...

This is just a very bad case.

And if you were convinced that I was not Mafia after day 2, why post that in such an inconclusive way? To me it seemed like you wanted to have an out to attack me or let the case go, depending on what happened with the thread.

And of course I don't think you get a telepathic message to see who is scum. But I remember you going after people even when you were wrong and I'm not seeing this here.

On regards to the size of the game, yes, it's almost unbearable.

[Ichabod]

Regarding my comment about Rowain, it's just what I think about him. And if it wasn't for his Mattimeo vote, he'd be high in my suspect list.

[pindicator]

Good morning. I'm going out with some friends to play some disc golf, so I'll try to stay abreast of things via phone. Probably will be reduced to defensive voting anyway, so I'll get this out of the way before the deadline gets near: Gaspar gives the worst reasoning I've seen yet for a vote on me. (Oh, and way to completely over simplify the defense too.) If you honestly think I'm scum I guess I can understand it; but voting for me just to get me out of the way? If that's your reasoning you are either 1) lazy or 2) scum. I suppose you could be both.

Maybe you mafioso are getting frustrated that you haven't been able to mislynch me yet? Makes me want to fight it all the harder



TT, i thought we were in the same camp? I guess it's novice for mayor after all. Funny how I convince one person