WW16: The Outlaws and The Olives

[novice]

But this is not about you at all. It's an argument for why we have another reason to hang Azza now, namely that his guilt strongly would strongly implicate you. If he flips innocent, my case against you disappears. How do you feel about hanging Azza tomorrow?

I think your case on me is weak to begin with so I'd rather not use it as a reason for lynching Azza. And I think the premise is wrong anyway - I don't see any link between my and Azza's alignment.

We could lynch Azza for other reasons but I feel like there ought to be better candidates.

[novice]

You guys really know how to fuck up the enjoyment of a game by being clueless

Noone for a second thought that maybe switching votes around with seconds to go was maybe a really easy way for mafia to get a mislynch?

Its total bollocks and its really pissed me off.

If I die, I think that the remaining wolves are Novice, Meiz, Injera and one of Selrahc/Molach

Who specifically are the clueless ones, TT? I assume your wolf suspects don't count.

[Lewwyn]

Why do you say that? Your vote was on Azza, it seemed like a highly relevant vote throughout the lynch.

I went back further through the votes one more time and you're right my vote did have more of an impact in the final voting then I originally recognized. So I hope it was important, but its still a bit discouraging to watch everything that happens for 43hours and then let everyone else control the last bit of the lynch. I mean I was used to this before in previous games, but the last couple games I was back in the states and could actually be on for the lynch time and it made a huge difference. Technically the last 3 games I've been on at lynch because WW13 was the game I ran. I think I got spoiled while I was stateside and its frustrating me more now.

Novice do you suspect Azza or not? I'm reading the back and forth between you and catwalk and Jesus I can't tell what your stance is! Personally, I think Azza is clear scum.

[waterbat]

Well, with the votes yesterday and me falling into the bottom of novice's list, I assume the coming days will bring more pressure on me. With the total lack such pressure the past few weeks - was starting to worry.

I like what Meiz did with his case on me. Similarly I like what catwalk is doing. No one is confirmed town yet. Catwalk has succeeded in pulling out some glaring contradictions in novice's thoughts on Azza.

Novice, if you thought azza was the best last minute surprise candidate, what has happened to change that perception? If tasunke wiggled out of the noose, I wouldn't make the automatic assumption he was less wolfy due to it. Why the same on azza? I do agree with your reasoning for action though - it didn't seem likely at he end we were going to get a red name.

[Lewwyn]

I do blame novice, but not for hanging Tasunke. I have no idea why Tasunke was brought up out of the blue with 5 minutes to spare. We had 3 candidates we were discussing, we could have sought to consolidate votes on two of those, in order to get a large enough majority that the wolves couldn't derail as easily. There are probably 4 wolves left, no way they'll let a wolf hang with this few voters.

<3 you too waterbat

I was curious too but it wasn't like Tasunke didn't have momentum a few hours earlier:

Vote Count

Meiz - 5 - Azza, Ichabod, tasunke, Gaspar, Twinkletoes89
Selrahc - 4 - Meiz, Waterbat, Molach, Jkaen
tasunke - 3 - Selrahc, novice, Pindicator
Azza - 2 - Catwalk, Lewwyn
Gaspar - 1 - Injera

Players not voting: None

Injera voted Tasunke directly after this to make it 4 on Tas. Then the wagon melted to this 10 minutes before the deadline:

Official Lynch Vote Count

Meiz - 5 - Azza, Ichabod, tasunke, Gaspar, Twinkletoes89
Azza - 5 - Catwalk, Lewwyn, Injera, Meiz, Selrahc
Selrahc - 4 - Waterbat, Molach, Jkaen, Pindicator
Waterbat - 1 - novice
Players not voting: None

Then this with nine minutes to go:

If Meiz won't hang, I prefer Tasunke.

starts the cascade. I don't want to suggest Ichabod is a wolf... OH wait. Yes I do. He starts the Tasunke wagon gets it up to 4 people, then switches back to Meiz then back to Tasunke seconds after the deadline, which didn't count. When I look on the block as to why Ichabod might have done that I see Azza and Selrahc on the block.

I think given how close the votes are at this point in time is like throwing a smoke grenade into crowded room and just begging for the most confusion possible. My theory is Azza and Ichabod are both wolves and Azza was a little too close to the block for the wolves tastes so they throw that grenade in there and count on just a couple votes shifting then they can combine and return to Meiz again. I have no idea who else might have been trying to engineer this, but I go back and look at the last 4 hours and I look at it as a whole and I see wolf wolf wolf.

Waterbat, just for you.

[SIZE="5"]Cahoots![/SIZE]

[Gaspar]

Maybe we can skip the 48 hour day tomorrow and novice can just tell us what's going to happen. Seems like it'd be easier on everyone's sanity.

All seriousness, while I still count novice amongst the townies it might be time to let someone else drive for a bit - what are we learning from the votes at this point? That enough people will follow every novice hunch that there's perfect cover to kill whomever at this point. I've pushed at trying to get other peoples hunches to the top because it gives us some different information. Of course, we're at the point now where every mistake is magnified, so that in and of itself isn't going to win the game for us.

I have a lot of time tomorrow but little today. I despise these lists but I just think its worth arguing that I think any list of village reads that doesn't put TT at the top is pretty crazy. Beyond that I like Catwalk, Waterbat, novice and Jkaen basing solely of the tone/read of their posts. I'm not going to list suspects because I think I've been sucking at that to this point so I'm going to reevaluate pretty much totally on tone/character and see where that lands me because I feel like I'm really missing something.

[pindicator]

Ranked from villager to wolf:
novice: the Secretary
Catwalk: the Bureaucrat
Pindicator: the Lawyer
Injera: the Electrician
Ichabod: the Pizza Delivery Boy
Twinkletoes89: the Barber
Meiz: the Firefighter
Jkaen: the Olive Picker
Selrahc: the Knife smith
Lewwyn: the Garbage collector
Molach: the Street musician
Azza: the Mechanic
Waterbat: the Clergy
Gaspar: the Carpenter

Interesting. When disregarding vote-based evidence, Azza, Gaspar and Waterbat bob to the bottom of the list. Yeah I don't know - it's hard to separate scummy posts from scummy/protown votes, so I might have to work on that list. I'll post it anyway, don't hang me for it being inconsistent with previous suspect lists.

What exactly kept Gaspar high on your list for voting reasons? I've had the opposite thoughts: that gaspar's voting record is bad and his posts have been usually helpful (although now i want to check over hs posts again)

[novice]

All seriousness, while I still count novice amongst the townies it might be time to let someone else drive for a bit

Absolutely, and I tried to take a more passive role on day 6, simply stating my opinions and seeing what transpired. What transpired was Catwalk blaming me for not consolidating the votes.

[novice]

Novice, if you thought azza was the best last minute surprise candidate, what has happened to change that perception? If tasunke wiggled out of the noose, I wouldn't make the automatic assumption he was less wolfy due to it. Why the same on azza? I do agree with your reasoning for action though - it didn't seem likely at he end we were going to get a red name.

Not quite sure what you're asking, but with everybody a likely villager, Azza felt like the most informative lynch. Also, the feeling I really got with a few minutes left was that I was wrong about Selrahc and Tasunke (being wolves). So I thought, maybe I was wrong about Azza as well.

[novice]

What exactly kept Gaspar high on your list for voting reasons? I've had the opposite thoughts: that gaspar's voting record is bad and his posts have been usually helpful (although now i want to check over hs posts again)

Yeah my approach sucks, he wasn't high on my villager list for voting reasons. I can't separate votes from tone in my mind - Gaspar is just taking hold as superficiallly helpful, essentially useless. So again, other suspects just bobbed past him. I suppose I could argue that his scumminess is not related to his votes per se, but rather to his spells of inactivity.

Anyway, I think I need to reevaluate my list when I'm able to look a bit more dispassionately on this game.