WW16: The Outlaws and The Olives

[pindicator]

Thanks waterbat. Hopefully novice can articulate it better, but by what I saw the case on you is that you were an early vote switcher off thestick, and then you've just blended since. Considering you've been vocally against villagers who are not engaged in the past, I admit I am a bit confused by your lack of engagement this game.

Everyday this whole game, when an easy lynch came up - a group of people say " I dont like to lynch X, it's been too easy" or "not enough movement for x to be a mafia". Not today though, thanks for that.

Funny thing, I remember that quote being brought up twice. Day 1 and yesterday; both times we caught mafia. I think Catwalk said it both times, too, which if he wasn't so obv village in his other posts would raise a lot of suspicion. (No, i do not suspect catwalk; especially because he's gone back to azza after I called him out on having blinders.)

@ichabod - 2 reasons for that post, both are explained within it (although the second one isn't explained well, i admit). The main point was to tell catwalk I thought he had blinders on with his attack on azza. My take on azza has been more along the line of him being different and we have a tendency to lynch new people just because they don't fit the mold. More dangerous, IMO, was that when people would bring points showing pro-town things that azza has said I felt like catwalk had just been dismissing them out of hand, and had become a bit crusader-like. (Although I do admit azza has not contributed as much as I would like, even after being called out, so I am starting to question my take on him.) 2nd point was that I was uncomfortable with how everything was just sitting still at the end of the day; it felt like people were waiting for something and I wanted to give a spark to start some motion. Now, perhaps I'm not the best person to start these types of things considering how much suspicion I have on me, but I wanted to give it a try anyway.


@novice - what do you think of waterbat's cheerleading of the mattimeo lynch? He was the 2nd person to vote with you and his posts after that don't look like someone just trying to park a safe vote

[pindicator]

his justification seems slightly... pompous, for lack of a better word.

smug, pompous - ugh, i'm getting a great reputation around here

[waterbat]

That's an interesting perspective.

Fwiw, my impression of Pindicator yesterday was that he was always going to vote Molach, so his switch back wasn't unexpected. I agree though that his justification seems slightly... pompous, for lack of a better word.

I read his assertion that I wasn't third on Molach because him and Gaspar were on molach but voted off seemed the same way. If you vote off, you vote of, not sure you can go back retroactively and claim you were the first or second one on the wagon, but whatever...

[Ichabod]

@ichabod - 2 reasons for that post, both are explained within it (although the second one isn't explained well, i admit). The main point was to tell catwalk I thought he had blinders on with his attack on azza. My take on azza has been more along the line of him being different and we have a tendency to lynch new people just because they don't fit the mold. More dangerous, IMO, was that when people would bring points showing pro-town things that azza has said I felt like catwalk had just been dismissing them out of hand, and had become a bit crusader-like. (Although I do admit azza has not contributed as much as I would like, even after being called out, so I am starting to question my take on him.) 2nd point was that I was uncomfortable with how everything was just sitting still at the end of the day; it felt like people were waiting for something and I wanted to give a spark to start some motion. Now, perhaps I'm not the best person to start these types of things considering how much suspicion I have on me, but I wanted to give it a try anyway.

So, why did you vote for Azza, then?

[Ichabod]

Or did you mean that your change from Molach to Azza was the one trying to spark some movement in the later part of the day? My first read was that your change from Azza to Molach was the one to spark the movement.

But why would you change from someone you suspected to someone you didn't suspect?

[novice]

This is Pindicator's post defending Waterbat.

Anyway, 2-hr drive from the coast to home gave me some time to htink about things and Waterbat doesn't fit as scum in my mind when I think about it. A couple of reasons, but one being that every scum we've caught so far has been playing a strong lurker game. Waterbat is out here throwing dirt around at the end of the day, when i think the pattern has been scum sitting back and letting the village fight among themselves, at least considering the actions of the ones that we have caught (molach, mattimeo).

Another reason is I can't see scum sticking their necks out right after one of their own was just lynched, so waterbat trying to connect catwalk & i after seeing molach flip mafia makes me think he is more an excited villager who just isn't giving much effort into the game, rather than wolf trying to steer the conversation. Plus the fact that he would make an accusation on me that can be flipped right around on him - he's not playing to preserve himself, obviously.

And also waterbat, you were not third on molach yesterday. When you made this post - http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showpost....count=3036 - if you would have voted then you would have been third on ichabod. But by the time you mentioned the pile, you were the fifth person to vote for him, because gaspar & i had both voted on him and then moved elsewhere. Which tells me you're only basing your "being third" on the final votes, and not paying much attention to the game as a whole. So I'm going on join in on Lewwyn and attribute you to being more of a lackadaisical villager than scum.

You even misquoted in your response: you put novice's quote and put it as being from me with a link to my post.

I think Azza answered the first two paragraphs quite well:

@pindicator;
I think it's extremely flawed to assume that since the mafia we've caught so far have been playing a lurkish game, all the mafia are playing a lurkish game. There's definitely a more active agent or two trying to manipulate the town. I get the sense from waterbats posts that he's been trying to subtly push an anti-town agenda, but that he's not naturally good at pulling the strings. He was definitely active at the Merovech lynch, and was pushing hard to save Catwalk.

I also don't understand your point about waterbat being a lazy villager. If he didn't care about the game as you suggest, why would he be active immediately after the deadline? He's also popped up just before a fair few lynches. To me, that suggests someone who is interested and engaged in the outcome, directly contradicting your theory. Am i missing something here?

As for the third paragraph, wouldn't an equally valid interpretation be that Waterbat exaggerates how early he was onto Molach by ignoring the fact that Gaspar and Pindicator had voted him and moved away again? At any rate, I think "I was third on Molach" is a fair statement when you are in fact the person having had your vote on him for the third longest time.

Fake edit: Yeah, this, actually:

I read his assertion that I wasn't third on Molach because him and Gaspar were on molach but voted off seemed the same way. If you vote off, you vote of, not sure you can go back retroactively and claim you were the first or second one on the wagon, but whatever...

Speaking of the Molach lynch, I had to prod Waterbat twice about his stated antipathy to lurkers in general and lurking Wolfmach specifically, before he voted Molach.

@novice - what do you think of waterbat's cheerleading of the mattimeo lynch? He was the 2nd person to vote with you and his posts after that don't look like someone just trying to park a safe vote

I'll take another look now.

[waterbat]

thank you novice.

i think the fact that we've had 0 alternative candidates this whole 48 hour period is telling.

[novice]

Waterbat's posts from the time he followed me onto Mattimeo:

why not all of you fucks (sorry for offense if taken)?

Im willing to bow to the idea that we have 2 village roles at play. A bit mistified at the timing of Qgqqqqqqq's reveal - but the confusion that has come as a result hasn't really cleared that up for me.

Mattimeo on the strength of two distinct moves away from him as lead lynch candidate.

Qg: Claims Mattimeo visited noone on N1. Uncertain whether this means one of them is lying or if Mattimeo protecting himself would show up blank to Qg (poor design if so IMO). Took a VERY long time to describe his role.

Injera: Is hell-bent on confirming the name of Mattimeo's ability, and insists that Mattimeo can confirm Injera's ability somehow. Claimed the ability at a time that Mattimeo was getting close to lynching, and is using his claim to defend Mattimeo. Also bungled the attempt to bust Mattimeo, by 1) not following Mattimeo every night and 2) giving Mattimeo too much information about his reads.

Mattimeo: Has made very suspicious night decisions, namely not using his power on N2 and N3.

Is the above a correct summary?

im with you catwalk, these parts made me suspect both injera and mattimeo of being in league. That being said - if i put myself in their shoes - im sure I would bungle it even worse.

its 8-4, hardly a big movement. in fact, im a bit concerned there isn't MORE movement. I guess its a thin line.

Azza! did you say up tonight?

no chance Qgqqqqq comes back to self-defense vote, i guess

quite a few of the qgqqqqq voters havent been here since the claim.....

TT already made the deciding vote, Molach.

=================deadline==========================

PRAISE THE GOD WHO CREATED LIGHT AND SHADOW

I guess those posts in isolation give me a village lean on Waterbat.

[novice]

Is your scraper updated, Waterbat?

[novice]

Speaking of the Molach lynch, I had to prod Waterbat twice about his stated antipathy to lurkers in general and lurking Wolfmach specifically, before he voted Molach.

Also, Waterbat, what's your response to this?