WW16: The Outlaws and The Olives

[Lewwyn]

I doubt Selrahc and Jkaen would hold the game ransom by not checking in in the temp forum as wolves. When this had become apparent Waterbat suggested a draw.

Lewwyn's justification for voting Ichabod just now seems perfectly reasonable but somehow still feels off. He also pursued Pindicator earlier for being "just a survivor" when I do feel he's likely villager.

First I totally agree with the meta argument that Selrahc and Jkaen have got to be villager and I can't see them as wolves not checking in. If I were a wolf I too would think about calling for a draw. As a villager though. I don't know if waterbat's draw call is fair to call wolfish. I've been a big supporter of his innocence and I still trust my read.

I also don't think its fair to categorize my pursuing of pindi for being just a survivor. For me it comes more down to process of elimination. And I said I believe that one of Ichabod and pindi are wolves. If I'm right about Ichabod then I believe pindi is innocent.

[Selrahc]

Here is what I don't like about the meta argument exculpating me:

I wasn't holding the game to ransom, until I was the last player to arrive. I think it would be perfectly fine for the wolves to game the meta in that way. The game can't really continue until all the villagers have turned up, so make it so that one of the wolves turns up in the last wave. Calibrate it off the villager arrivals.

I don't think it would be a nasty or underhanded thing for the wolves to do. They would in fact be protecting the game from meta arguments. Anybody who has taken me off their suspect list for that reason, bear in mind that I think this. I'd like to not be a suspect for rather less shaky meta reasons.

[Gaspar]

[quote='novice' pid='300546' dateline='1350202479']
Gaspar - The unkind description here is "superficially useful, essentially useless".

Gaspar has been quick to credit me and Zak for village progress, trying to stay on my good side? And he has been defending villagers more than attacking scum.

Gaspar, then.

I don't really think this is accurate. I generally don't trust either of you but zak's day one play was stone cold village and anyone could see that. He died immediately after so there was no reason to doubt that. I've always kept your wolf-skill in mind, but I can't imagine scum getting in front of as much as you have - that's the only reason I've stayed away from contention with you.

Re: defending vs attacking - I don't really think that's useful either. I've tried to hunt when I've had time, when I haven't I've voiced village reads. That's something I generally do less of, since I think its less useful but when you're time limited you give what you have. That's what I've had. When I've had time, I've laid out cases but I haven't crusaded because I haven't been in a position to do so.

I agree with your read on Pindicator, except that when I ran my re-read the other day he had the most scummy behavior I read, followed by Ichabod, though both had town moments. I had intended to follow that up with more reads of those two from other days, but the forum fiasco sort of took whatever interest I had left in this game and sucked the wind out of it and I've not really bothered. This doesn't change the fact that lynching me would be a mistake and I'd prefer to win. I'm not terribly opposed to an Ichabod lynch for the same reasons, but it does seem too clean. Pindicator could be this games version of Brick for the last game, where we stop suspecting him based solely on the fact that if he was scum, how would have have wriggled off the hook so many times? So I'll go with pindicator.

[Meiz]

Please elaborate, that didn't make any sense to me.

Ok, sorry bout that. I won't be having access for my pc, so relying on mobile. The pr comment didn't relate to waterbat. Just haven't seen anything from him that would make me suspect him less than before.

I think it might be possible that wolves have used pr's only for villagers, since everyone always kind of expects clever wolf tactics. So I don't like the thinking that at least one pr player has to be a wolf.

The meta comment was related to novice's comment that neither Selrahc or Jkaen would keep the game on hold just for wolf tactics. I agree with that. Not fair for wolves, but they lean village for me based on that :P

[Twinkletoes89]

Now, whichever result comes up, the village will benefit.

1) We know a post-restrictor more than likely exists, helps to get rid of my paranoia over Novice & Meiz

I don't think this will help much. With three players claiming to have been post restricted it's already pretty obvious that there is a post restrictor. Unlikely that all three of use are wolves.

I disagree, mainly because the way that the post restrictions have fallen seem to lack any real pattern or common sense to me. I would expect a post restrictor to exist if we could see logically why all those that were hit and why at that time. Meiz's and Ichabod's both make no sense at all so I question their presence.

It is so astounding that Ichabod would be hit that I don't want us to be leaving it up to assumptions that there is one. I've been pushing Meiz and you for so long because I don't believe it and now we have a chance for us to get some level of stone-cold confirmation on it without putting at risk two of the village's seemingly 'most valuable assets'.

Its time to get some questions answered, and Ichabod is already someone a lot of people have suspicions about.

Either the mafia has made a major mistake or they are trying to screw with us. Either way, lets find out.

[novice]

Since TT apparently prefers Ichabod over Gaspar I'll join Meiz on Waterbat.

[novice]

Unofficial Vote Count
3.5 hours remaining

Ichabod - 3 - Twinkletoes89, Selrahc, Lewwyn
Waterbat - 2 - Meiz, novice
Pindicator - 2 - Jkaen, Gaspar
Catwalk - 1 - Ichabod


Players not voting: Catwalk, Pindicator, Waterbat

[pindicator]

Gaspar, i thought a post like that from waterbat made sense because he hasn't been involved in the game- but the same type of "let's lynch him because we haven't been able to cash in our mislynch" argument does not sit well with what I've seen of your reasoning.

Gaspar

Although i'm pretty much at the point where i don't care if i'm lynched any more, this game has gone on too long and the delay makes coming back to it even tougher.

Gaspar, you did ask me my thoughts right before the Great Forum Crash of 2012, so here is a summary of what i wrote and was lost from that (well, the PR bit was the first part of that post)

People i think are likely lock solid villagers: novice, catwalk, twinkletoes. Or rather, with how this game has dragged on at this point if any of those three are wolves then hats off to them, i'm willing to let them ride home to victory just because they have pulled off masterful acting jobs over the first 8 days. (Although i reserve the right to change my mind if future evidence comes to light.)

I'm gonna go out on a limb and trust my PM is correct when it says i'm a villager.

That leaves gaspar, ichabod, jkaen, lewwyn, meiz, selrahc, waterbat. Waterbat i'm still leaning village on, although maybe that is as much a result of not wanting to be wrong as it is of honestly thinking he's village. So out of six people there are 3 or 4 scum left. I think that's pretty good odds.

So yeah, i'll stay with Gaspar

[novice]

Gaspar, since Pindicator joined me.

[Selrahc]

Well, I've been suspicious of Gaspar for a big part of the game.

I suppose letting Ichabod get some non-restricted chatter off in his defence might be good, but I'm still really suspicious about this post restriction and will be bringing it up again.