[SPOILERS] Dazed and scooter play Stalin of Vikings and make a big mess

[Tyrmith]

If it was me I'd probably do it. IMO the goal is to get the best place possible. If 1st isn't possible, then you should be gunning for 2nd, and if that makes it easier for Krill, well it doesn't really change the ending at all anyway.

[pindicator]

Oh after all that, I forgot to mention the whole reason I updated to complain! So, as apart of some deal a few turns back (it's slipping my mind), Regopin were gifting me spices and rice. It was extra from a tech trade I think. Anyways, they suddenly declared war on Nakor which "magically" broke our trade connection and auto cancelled the deal. Oh, and then Regopin "magically" made peace with him the next turn. HHMMMMM. There's no way they just declared a phony war just to screw me out of a few turns of resource use right? RIGHT??

Ridiculous. They've been jerking me around by offering me completely insane tech trades - Regoarrarr offered like 500g for Replaceable parts which yes, that costs 7,000 beakers and is a monopoly tech. I nearly did the whole thing where I demanded all their cities again just to adequately communicate the giant middle finger I was flipping them, but I decided it wasn't worth my time.

I just can't figure out what their motivation is in pissing me off. Surely they know they want to buddy up to me to better contain Krill right? Sigh.

This post makes me sad
Because we were thinking the exact same thing about you! So wow, we really screwed up the diplo portion here: both of us were trying to get the same thing, and yet both of us were pissed at the other person for similar reasons.

I think we falsely attributed a lot of nakor's tech trading to you early on. I fact, it was the last trade where nakor gave constitution to krill that made us throw in the towel with that post in the IT thread.

Also, we declared war because nakor was supplying yuri and we were pissed. We totally dropped the ball about the connection affecting you, and that was a bad mistake

[scooter]

Hope you didn't mind the snarkiness, definitely nothing personal intended... I just didn't get the game you guys were playing.

The main difference between me and you guys was I was not in a winnable position. From my perspective, you guys should've been trying hard to get me to help you since you still had a shot at winning. I didn't, so if the person who was nicest to me was Krill, then fine. A couple times I got tired of you guys haggling me on tech trades and just made a deal with someone else instead. It got better as it went on, but then the last half dozen turns I was getting frustrated with a lack of trading with you guys so I started offering stuff to Krill/Nakor/Commodore again. So that's where the breakdown occurred. I didn't really feel any loyalty to you at all, so if I got better deals elsewhere I took them. I think you would've been better off feeding me techs at ridiculously cheap prices. That 1) woudl've prevented me from trading with other people and 2) gained you a solid ally and a safe border. As is I had a fleet of Galleons stocked full of Amphibious CR Pinch Rifles I nearly threw this at you guys out of boredom and so I could lock down more islands:



(that plus a few more ships that showed up a couple turns later full of my much better promoted rifles that were veterans from the Brick war)

I ended up deciding against doing this, but I'm guessing that would've been pretty challenging for you guys solely because of my movement advantage and because every one of those rifles are amphibious.

[scooter]

I want to elaborate a little on "should've fed me techs really cheaply"... There was one point where I tried to buy some tech from you, but you guys haggled or something and the price was high-ish. It wasn't TOTALLY unreasonable, but it wasn't what I asked for. Krill showed up and offered me that tech for cheaper than you guys wanted - much cheaper. So I took it. If you guys had even just gifted it to me, 1) Krill wouldn't have gotten whatever I gave to him for it and 2) I would've felt some loyalty towards you guys. When I saw that not happening, I just decided to play my own game as you guys didn't seem super interested in cooperating.

I'm getting this out because I have yet to open your thread . I'll do that soon. Though I'll probably start in the last 70 turns or so.

[pindicator]

I want to elaborate a little on "should've fed me techs really cheaply"... There was one point where I tried to buy some tech from you, but you guys haggled or something and the price was high-ish. It wasn't TOTALLY unreasonable, but it wasn't what I asked for. Krill showed up and offered me that tech for cheaper than you guys wanted - much cheaper. So I took it. If you guys had even just gifted it to me, 1) Krill wouldn't have gotten whatever I gave to him for it and 2) I would've felt some loyalty towards you guys. When I saw that not happening, I just decided to play my own game as you guys didn't seem super interested in cooperating.

I'm getting this out because I have yet to open your thread . I'll do that soon. Though I'll probably start in the last 70 turns or so.

Rego and I quibbled about the tech selling a lot. The two of use had a huge difference in what the expected value of trading a tech was. I think between teams there was a large difference as well. The whole pennies-on-the-dollar thing was just awful, IMO, and at the end of the game I was advocating zero trading just out of principle (and frustration at seeing nakor send every tech to everyone)

[regoarrarr]

Agree with Pindicator on that resource cancellation - that was unintentional and we had to declare due to Nakor continuing to supply our enemy (Yuri) with iron. I still don't get that but perhaps reading Nakor's thread will shed some light.

I'm still not sure I agree with your policy on teching / trading. Though maybe it's just that I am still realizing how unwinnable your position was, or at least how unwinnable you THOUGHT it was (which is really all that matters). From where we were sitting, we viewed you and us as 2a and 2b, and the thinking was that if we could just arrange everyone to stop trading with Krill we all might have a chance. I mean his production was out of this world (higher than ours even when we were in a GA), but if he had to tech things and we could tech them at 2:1 or 3:1 (with Nakor) then we might be able to get a tech advantage to do something about it.

But with no diplo, it was hard to arrange that, and with brokering on, it was even more impossible.

As for those rifles, you could of course done a fair bit of damage, but I think the net effect would have been to just get the game called.

[dazedroyalty]

Scooter, great job! I'm glad I could be a part of it at the start. While this isn't the end we originally hoped for, given the circumstances, I think it's the best that we could have hoped for if we knew what was really going on. Way to keep up the good times till the end.

[scooter]

Scooter, great job! I'm glad I could be a part of it at the start. While this isn't the end we originally hoped for, given the circumstances, I think it's the best that we could have hoped for if we knew what was really going on. Way to keep up the good times till the end.

Thanks! Sorry you had to drift off late, but teaming up for the first half was great fun. Playing that unique opening and all our chat debates on how to make something out of a horrible situation was really fun, and I think the challenge was great.

[scooter]

Rego and I quibbled about the tech selling a lot. The two of use had a huge difference in what the expected value of trading a tech was. I think between teams there was a large difference as well. The whole pennies-on-the-dollar thing was just awful, IMO, and at the end of the game I was advocating zero trading just out of principle (and frustration at seeing nakor send every tech to everyone)

FWIW, I think this is ironic, because this is the exact way I felt when I was the one with the tech lead. I remember saying in this thread "forget it, I'm done teching" and I seriously shut off tech for about 60 turns with only one or two quick exceptions. I figured I'd let you guys see what it felt like to be in a tech lead with Krillmod + tech trading. It sucks, right? I had a maaaaassive tech lead that would have probably been decisive in a vanilla game, but I had to sit and watch it disappear when I ran into massive tech costs, pennies on the dollar, known tech bonuses, etc, and that was agonizing.

Agree with Pindicator on that resource cancellation - that was unintentional and we had to declare due to Nakor continuing to supply our enemy (Yuri) with iron. I still don't get that but perhaps reading Nakor's thread will shed some light.

I'm still not sure I agree with your policy on teching / trading. Though maybe it's just that I am still realizing how unwinnable your position was, or at least how unwinnable you THOUGHT it was (which is really all that matters). From where we were sitting, we viewed you and us as 2a and 2b, and the thinking was that if we could just arrange everyone to stop trading with Krill we all might have a chance. I mean his production was out of this world (higher than ours even when we were in a GA), but if he had to tech things and we could tech them at 2:1 or 3:1 (with Nakor) then we might be able to get a tech advantage to do something about it.

But with no diplo, it was hard to arrange that, and with brokering on, it was even more impossible.

As for those rifles, you could of course done a fair bit of damage, but I think the net effect would have been to just get the game called.

I think Nakor made a lot of enemies by trading with virtually anybody . I don't doubt that it was unintentional, but it was bad timing because you guys had done some trade (a brokering or haggling me or something) that had me annoyed already, and then seeing me losing a resource that I badly needed (all my cities were unhappy with 0 luxuries) because of a phony war you guys declared made me pretty unhappy.

As for the last part - yeah - part of why I didn't do the war is I figured you guys would instantly concede if I did it, and I would feel like I'm sabotaging the game at that point. Since everybody seemed to be having fun (or at least threads were still updating consistently and I was having fun), I figured I'd let you guys decide when to end it on your terms and not on mine. That didn't stop the lurkers from demanding more blood of course.

[pindicator]

As for the last part - yeah - part of why I didn't do the war is I figured you guys would instantly concede if I did it, and I would feel like I'm sabotaging the game at that point. Since everybody seemed to be having fun (or at least threads were still updating consistently and I was having fun), I figured I'd let you guys decide when to end it on your terms and not on mine. That didn't stop the lurkers from demanding more blood of course.

Actually, if you would have invaded it would have energized me, at least for a while. Depends on how the war would have gone. But that force could have done some damage. I was sending most of our produced rifles to the south and west. I also was trying to advocate more frigate builds, but they got lost in the greater worry of Krill. I think we had about half a dozen frigates in the area, but you had mobility on them so it would have been interesting. I bet the war goes with you razing a couple coastal cities to start, and then as we bring more production to bear we can get a naval standoff. If Commodore or Krill doesn't join in it probably stays a stalemate. If Commodore attacks we might be able to repell, depending on his timing. If Krill attacks in force then we're screwed.

That was the big worry for me: our location bordered too many major powers. Probably how Nakor felt, being stuck between you and Krill