XCOM: Enemy Unknown aka the one where Haphazard dies repeatedly

[dazedroyalty]

Asia does not pay off immediately, this is true. But saving half off all OTS projects is worth a certain amount, and half off Foundry projects is also nice (although the payoff is even further into the game). But unless you start in Asia you are unlikely to get the continent bonus; other continents are easier to get due to fewer countries or higher contributing countries.

NA is a bit of extra cash early, but only a bit -- second sat goes over USA wherever you start, pretty much. After that grabbing Canada (a solid 100 C/month contributor) and Mexico (low contributor but completes the bonus) is pretty straightforward.

I love how different we play which, is a good sign that there is some strategic depth, even on the simplified strat layer! I completely think think differently about this. If I have a Base in NA, then I can ignore Canada and Mexico and focus elsewhere. All of Europe is pretty much as good if not better than Canada in terms of bonus. Russia is a huge contributor in cash, second only to the US.

SA is too easy to grab with a pair of sats. Africa does not help you much until you have a decent number of sats up, and can be grabbed easily enough. Europe maybe if you plan to actually build labs (the game can easily be won without them) and workshops (useful and usually need at least a couple).

I also think Africa helps a lot more than you realize. Having 30% more income can really help when you're trying to get satellites up and you're tight on cash but don't want to have to sell off all your corpses/alloys/fragments. If you don't focus on satellites, though, I will admit that Africa is less useful since there is less cash to be influenced.

Anyway, I am happy starting anywhere, even SA. Think of it as variant play. Whichever we pick, I agree with dazedroyalty that we need to decide our continent coverage plan from the start so we can choose abduction missions intelligently.

I'm willing to start anywhere as well. However, I do think that Asia is a waste because it will have absolutely zero bonus effect the first month and most likely the second as well. The most important OTS upgrades (squad size) are already the cheapest. Also, I also build the foundry very late. There just isn't enough in it to really motivate me to do it.

I just played SA in my last solo game en route to becoming a "Continental Fellow" and the benefit is so small it's not really worth it. Research time is rarely the hold up in this game and the difference between instant and 2-3 days is not much. I know i actually argued for SA in the other thread, but after playing it all the way through it didn't really help all that much. In fact, it's the continent that I would be MOST okay with ignoring and losing a country from (independent from any other considerations).

Europe, NA and Africa are, in my opinion, very clearly the strongest start locations. I would rank them NA, Africa then Europe, personally.

Also, I think a really solid strategy will be to pick the continent we want second, then ignore any abduction there since we'll be launching satellites there first (which we should, of course, save right ot the end of the month). That allows us the best chance of avoiding major panic early.

[xenin]

Also, I think a really solid strategy will be to pick the continent we want second, then ignore any abduction there since we'll be launching satellites there first (which we should, of course, save right ot the end of the month). That allows us the best chance of avoiding major panic early.

I like this strategy, although we would have to decide what to do if the best bonus is where we want to build satellites (go, scientists vs engineers vs cash argument!)

[dazedroyalty]

Early game, no question: Engineers->cash->scientists. This is where the early game RNG can make or break a game attempt to keep all nations in that you need early engineers but also need to not take missions in the same continent you're going for.

[uberfish]

You guys overrate cash and underrate the impact of tech imo. I'd rather have a stronger squad in month 2 than lots of cash in month 4.

On the plus side I suppose the longer we operate with the starting equipment, the more troops are likely to die in hilarious fashion, so if people are going to insist on satellite spamming strategy I won't stop you Just know that it isn't the only or "right" way to play the game.

[Ug the Barbarian]

You guys overrate cash and underrate the impact of tech imo. I'd rather have a stronger squad in month 2 than lots of cash in month 4.

On the plus side I suppose the longer we operate with the starting equipment, the more troops are likely to die in hilarious fashion, so if people are going to insist on satellite spamming strategy I won't stop you Just know that it isn't the only or "right" way to play the game.

Agreed - it seems to be the main strategy on Impossible but we're not playing that. Personally I beat Classic and Classic Ironman with a balanced strategy - keep building sats & facilities for them but not at expense of getting Nanofibre armour, scopes etc and making sure OTS was built in first 4-6 weeks for squad upgrades.

Are we agreed on leaving promotions from a mission to next player ? If so, are there any we all agree should or shouldn't be taken ? (e.g. Squad Sight on snipers, Lightning Reflex on Assaults, Sprint on Support)

Happy to go with any start - have done NA and Asia and they both work well - Africa is other strong one. Europe is weaker and SA is weakest of all

[dazedroyalty]

Im not advocating that we skip nano fiber armor, lasers, or such things. There are some extreme satellite rushes that do that but that's what I was attempting (perhaps poorly) to distinguish in a previous post. I think we need to build some of those essentials but I don't think we need an OTS or Foudry very quickly. I'm indifferent to labs. They help some but I would rather have 1-2 satellites than 1 lab.

[haphazard1]

OTS early for the squad size upgrades is very useful. And even though these are the cheapest upgrades it does not hurt to save 50% on them. All the rest of the OTS can wait until more cash is available. Foundry tends to be later, but there are some very valuable projects. I would rate medkit upgrade and ammo conservation as the most important, scope upgrade and arc thrower upgrade also very useful, SHIV stuff is OK if you like to use them but otherwise completely unnecessary. I like the improved pistol projects because I tend to make extensive use of pistols by snipers and assaults. Other stuff is situational or nice to have, but with the Asia bonus can be worth it. During my one winning game so far (started in Asia) I did purchase every single Foundry project.

For promotions I agree on leaving them to the next player, although this means people need to be careful to check available soldiers for promotions. Let's not forget -- the enemy is tough enough as it is. Exceptions would be for squaddie and major, since there is no choice involved. Might as well go ahead and take those just so they don't get forogtten.

On promotion strategy I certainly have ones I like and dislike, but I am happy to leave the decisions up to the players at the time. Part of the fun of an SG is seeing what others like to do and having to use that, and maybe finding that other options are not so bad after all. As dazedroyalty noted, it looks like there are some significant differences in play style and it will be fun to see how that works out.

For early game stuff, I do recommend pushing sats pretty hard but not to the point of not building anything. Nano-fiber vests can save lives, scopes can be quite useful, I am a big believer in getting carapace fairly early, etc. But if you are not getting at least one uplink/nexus plus associated sats up per month, something has gone very wrong.

Other strategy questions: heavy early capture strategy + skip lasers for early plasma weapons, or play it safer and go for lasers? Explosives for the early wins or hold back/take risks for more corpses and fragments?

On the early mission rewards choices, I agree with dazedroyalty that engineers -> cash -> scientists. Being able to reach the engineer thresholds for the first couple sat uplinks without having to build a workshop is very helpful. (Although if we start in Europe that becomes less important.) Too many scientists early just leaves you unable to build any of the stuff you have unlocked. Cash rewards early are very helpful as long as you are not going to have to spend them on workshops. Personnel rewards...really depends on what is being offered and the state of your soldier roster. Sometimes they are awesome (a support captain offered just after both my promoted supports died was a life-saver) and sometimes they are utter garbage (a fourth sniper sergeant? no thanks!).

I will go ahead and cast my vote for starting location: I have won from Asia and am currently playing from NA, so how about Africa? Again, I am happy to start anywhere. But let's get some votes on the table.

[uberfish]

Building labs too early isn't particularly cost effective because they're a % increase whereas workshop gives 5 engineers flat for the same amount, it would usually be correct to take 4 scientists from an abduction and build a workshop instead. They're typically something you'd consider in month 3-4 depending on how the game is progressing

[uberfish]

Some extremel build orders for reference:

Hard satellite rush:

1st Abduction -> 4 Eng
Workshop
3 sats
Uplink
2nd Abduction -> 4 Sci (I prefer this usually! You need lasers, armour and alien capture and this takes a while.)

(Month 2)
3rd Abduction -> 4 Eng
3-4 sats
Uplink


Fast Alien Base:

1st Abduction -> 4 Sci
Fast alien containment
1 sat
2nd Abduction -> 4 Eng
Start capturing aliens
Workshop

(month 2)
Abductions -> Take whatever's needed
2-3 sat and uplink
Hit alien base end of month with lasers + skeleton armour
And if you want to go minimalist it's possible to win on 5 sats total.

[Sareln]

What's the benefit of a fast alien base raid?

I played my campaign on normal and so skipped all the laser-tech and went straight to plasma, so I don't think I have a good idea about the difficulties facing us in classic it seems.

For starting location, I won from NA. SA seems a silly place to start, and I'd be cool with anywhere but SA or NA.