Imperium Eleven - too big for my own good

[timmy827]

Play the odds and send the col ship to the yellow straight away, and pays off handsomely. I've rarely seen non-hostile Ultra Riches, and never one in initial range (plus a healthy size 50 to boot!). Round of scout 2's fans out and finds a "nice" tech at the NE artifacts:

OK Sullla, enough is enough (note that this was his tech of choice in the debate after Imperium Ten). From now on I'm going to request you PM me the location of any Artifacts planets so I can avoid scouting them in scored events

Range 5 was the only early Prop choice. That was fine, only world in 4-range was a poor, and the artifacts was 5 away.

Here's that 2nd planet soon after, building a colony ship for the other habitable in starting range (for those who didn't play it was a size 30 minimal, very nice to have a 2nd habitable in range):

This is absurd, its 2313! In fact on this turn I reversed the standard opening. I stripped Kholdan down to 50 pop and filled up Maalor as it would be a faster col ship pump. Turned Kholdan onto full research (had more than enough factories for 50 pop), I had been tricking credits into range5 for a while. I got lucky and range 5 popped in 2318 - chances went 1%-8%-17% and got it on that turn. Same turn Maalor maxes out and it could build 3 col ships in 4 turns (!) (only did two as I couldn't use more), one is ordered immediately for the artifacts world. Select Nuke Engines. Open Planetology:

Take Barren as there are two Barren worlds, one next to the artifacts and another east. Construction gave RW80 as only choice, nice to have at bug-discounted prices but not a top priority due to the artifacts bonanza. I generously overfund research and finish Barren and IT+10 by 2326, then start on Dead. 2 colonies founded that turn (Artemis artifacts and Primodius Poor):

Gosh, what a favorable opening (I've screwed up slightly here being slow to send a scout SE of the cursor/NE of the Dead but compared to most games I've done a good job of managing scouts; the planet at the cursor is Orion). Barren and Dead are the perfect tech choices as there are two of each in range, and having +10 was great too. Of course I have a big advantage with the Improved Eco pop, and a massive one if it was not in the normal bridge. By this time I figure the central yellow is vacant (no ships seen at all yet) and I'll have free run on a lot of the galaxy. Colony ships going every which way soon. Also, that western Terran at the yellow is a size 125 Fertile.

Other tech things - take the cheap ECM1 and Hand Laser options, transitioning to BC3 (only choice) and NPG (cheaper than the other Ion Cannon option). Interestingly, Humans are ranked ahead of me in production sometime in the 2330's despite my roaring start (and no sign of them yet). Controlled Dead comes in 2341 (again I got lucky, went 4%-11%-pop!)

Map a few turns later in 2346:

Ships are crawling to the SE Dead and Arid (I can now fit reserve tanks on a Large colship) but I decided to suspend the rest of the building as I was close to Nuke Engines (which just came in, chose Sublights - not all that useful, but Range 7 didn't seem important) and the the distances are long enough that they will come out roughly the same in the end. I design a medium warp two to safeguard the hostiles near the Silicoids as well as Ukko, the barren closest to them. Already got lucky as I've retreated unarmed colony ships there just after founding. Have chased Psilon and Bulrathi scouts in the east.

The downside of this ridiculous start is that I am really short on colonists to send to all of these worlds. I've been keeping Kholdan near half-full the whole time and still have a lot of outposts with only the initial colonists. Good news is that Poor planet is at its bell curve peak so I can start using it to seed worlds as well.

I have 29 turns until scoring benchmark. I definitely want Toxic before then (need to finish +20 first, that may have been a mistake) to get the 3pts per additional planet. In other techs - will probably ignore Prop and spend on areas I'm behind in to get lvl2 techs like IIT8, whatever tier-2 force field I have, NPG, maybe BC3. I should be in contact with all races by then, we'll see what happens.

Ideally I would like one AI to be at war with two or more others - then I can attack them, gaining at least as many diplo points as losing as well as getting tech and planets. But it seems unlikely that this will happen before the score deadline. Also, I was hoping I don't trigger the "we hate you cause you're big" before 2375.

Keep grabbing worlds, IT+20 in (finally) in 2355.

Map of 2357:

Next turn the rocks settle another planet bringing the first vote. I have a blocking 6 of 17, but enough vote for the Humans that I can't. A shame, that would've been great for relations.

Finish NPG in 2361, choose Merculites over mass driver and neutron blaster. Almost everything going to Toxic now. My absurd luck continues as I get Toxic in 2362 - it wasn't even in percentages when I checked I dont think! Must have had some pop growth nudge it to 1% and hit gold. Unfortunately, I've been splurging on different types of colony designs and have to wait a turn for another founding before being able to design a toxic ship.

I continue to retreat Silicoid ships (for some reason they've never used armed or escorted ones, I have some 4laser mediums but not much that would withstand a determined attack). However, I lose a Barren to the Humans at the north edge a turn before my ship can get there. In 2365 I see a human colony ship inbound to a new settlement of mine:

It didn't retreat when my scout was chased, so I believe it's armed and I don't have any warships in the area. I don't think I can fend off an invasion so I try threatening them, they cave (and give range 4). It seems like this was a mistake as their ship continues past that world - sorry, couldn't tell without a scanner upgrade. One point could be deducted from my tech score if desired.
Sublights pop in 2368 and I go for Fusion engines (hey, I missed all these in the last Imperium! Energy Pulsar and Warp Dissipator don't seem at all useful; I will be able to crush the AI's at will). At this point all toxic ships are outbound and I should have all those settled by the scoring mark.

2369 - Pop BC3 and FF3 (the latter at 1%, jesus christ this is some crazy tech luck). Go for deep space scanner (an extra tech point that's cheap) and FF4 (no choice). Neptunus is settled, at last granting me formal contact with the only-Mentar psilons. They are at Unease and all three other races are Relaxed. I also get the "half-the-galaxy" notification; I keep dreading the "you're too big" relations tank but it hasn't happened yet - based on pop instead of # of planets maybe? Sign all but unwilling braniacs to NAPs as no planets are still in jeopardy. The homeworld is maxed in 2371 or so.

More good luck with popping Battle Suits and Deep Space Scanner in 2372, set course for ECMIII (over BC4) and Zortium. I was worrying that I might not get one in just through poor RNG luck; I probably can't finish any other tech in 3 turns (despite a 3000BC/yr research clip) so I max the eco slider on my numerous half-full worlds to grow pop for the Colonist division.

The last available Toxic planet is settled in 2474 and it's an unmitigated disaster as I finally trigger size warnings from Humans and Bulrathis. Relations with all races drop - Humans and Silicoids from Amiable to Neutral, Bears Relaxed->Neutral, Brains Unease->Wary. Rocks do bounce back a bit for the scoring turn:

This is 38 points. Would have been 48 if I could have just maintained the relations from a few turns ago, argh! Geez, I'd have to hold this even until 2450 to get the 75 points.
Now for the Colonist news


That's 26 planets total, so I have (26+14)*3 = 120 points. Great news, hitting 150 in that category is assured assuming I don't suffer big losses. Techs:

Good for 70 points.

[timmy827]

Looking ahead - the quadrupling seems impossible and even the doubling is in doubt. I'm going to have to be very careful with AI-AI wars; I can see myself needing to intervene to prevent the brains from getting wiped out. Techwise I pick my three areas to focus on. Planetology seems natural as larger planets will help me research faster and it's my currently most advanced. Construction seems logical since we're highly rated. Computers is probably the other one best to focus on; I want to finish ECMIII soon to see if RC4 is available. Will try to steal RC3 from brains if not.

Merculites come in 2381, go for gravbeams. Do get to select RC4 in 2383 and IT+40 is in % as well. In 2387 the humans dissolve the NAP. With a huge reserve (the UR has been on reserve forever) I do not fear them at all as all the nearby planets can get Merculite bases up quickly.
Soon I get +40 and RC4 and am on a long factory and terraforming binge when, in 2396, the bears give me an expansion warning, Psilons declare war, and rocks break their NAP. Like the humans, I feel like I am in zero danger but this does not bode well for my diplo prospects. Silicoids declare a few turns later - don't those silly rocks realize that with only lasers it's mathematically impossible for them to accomplish anything? Grrr...oh well, I can spy for a few more tech points, and lift IIT9 off the rocks in 2400. At that vote I have 24/39. Atmospheric Terraforming comes in but unfortunately I only have +50 as option - neither Soil Enrichment tech is in my tree, and (since most of my planets are near full) atmo terra doesn't do much good without them. Humans are at Hate with diplomat gone as well, but at least haven't declared war yet. Wanting to avoid a universal dogpile, I give the bears IT+40 in 2403 to fight the rocks. I already took Jinga, the dead rich in the SE corner, with trivial ease - only 1 base, no ships, and 20 rocks on the planet so I just sent a boatload of colonists. Only a few were shot down and I had a +15 gropo advantage from Zortium and Battle Suits so easy pickings.

I also put together a rather silly medium design:

Well, the AI's are feeble enough (no planetary shields) that this works well enough. In 2406 24 of them easily bomb the lone missle base on another Silicoid world. I take a total of 3 worlds from them and between invasions and spies pick their techs clean.

The Humans do get the drop on me, I had been ignoring defenses at a Dead world near them as they lacked that tech, but forgot that Atmospheric Terraforming allowed them to attack it. They had a huge autorepair with a bunch of heavy blast cannons and easily destroyed Laan's lone missle base. However, the bombardment damage was not that bad - usually around 22 factories and 6-7 million casualties (wow, that last statement is pretty gross). With reserve spending I could build 4 bases/turn - doing this once was worthwhile to kill of the other ships but couldn't exceed the autorepair rate on the huge. However, reserve spending on Ind and Eco could keep up pretty well with the bombardment damage, and the planet was able to survive invasions of 50 and 30 while I built up a fleet nearby. The screenshot is the fleet that ended the siege (killed it the first turn, I guess I should have attacked sooner) - mediums are the same ones that have been knocking the rocks around and the smalls are a 2NPG fighter.

in 2420, Aurora captured from the Silicoids, after which I sign peace. They refuse to enter any trade so I don't think the relations are going to recover much. RC5 and GravBeams come in, head for ECM something-or-other (honestly, does anyone actually use these?) and ISP.

Conquest is mine for the taking in 2425 but I delay so I can reach the next score point.

In 2432 yet more expansion warnings, from the brains and the bears. Game plan changes; there's essentially no chance of enough diplomacy to get to doubling, so I may as well take them all out.

Terra +100 in 2440. Humans have finally signed peace.
I complete the Construction tree in 2447 (although I don't grab the optionals)
Luck out in that turn as an all-out research effort gives me +120 that turn, so I have the 1 turn needed to grow all my planets before the scoring deadline. And I get ANOTHER expansion warning and relations decline from the Humans and bears! These AI's have it out for me, pretty ballsy considering that I can wipe them out without a sweat. Even with all worlds one 75% Eco to ensure maxing out of pop, I have enough research to finish death spores (at 75% odds) for one more planetology point. It's a shame that neither soil enricher was in the tree and that no other race got to them.

Well, here's the status on 2449:
Diplo misery:

Two are too low to count, total of 18 points.
Tech screen:


153, enough for the highest category even with the 2375 mark.
Map:

33 planets, we can go to next turn's vote for the other part of that:

Total of 92 points in the Colonist category.
So I vote myself in, barely restraining the urge to wipe out these cretins. Why don't you love me? Why? I only took planets because it's necessary to get peace, and never took first hostile action...

[timmy827]

Total scoring summary
Colonist -
3*26 (planets 2375) + 3*14(votes 2375) + 33 (planets 2449) + 59 (votes 2449) = 212
Tech -
70 (2375) + 153 (2449) = 223
Diplo -
38 (2375) + 18 (2449) = 56
+100 victory bonus - total of 591.

Was a very enjoyable game but the diplomatic outcomes were of course very frustrating. I knew that my expansion was playing with fire, but getting hit with warnings at the last possible minute to lower the diplo score at both times was brutal. I wish I knew the specifics of how that was calculated; given that it came so late in this game I wonder if the AI counts your expansion from time of first contact? Does it go by # planets, population, or both? The time the AI stays at war is very aggravating as well, despite my massive advantage in every category it seemed like no peace treaty was possible until I demonstrated superiority by taking a world or two (which of course set me on track to get more expansion warnings).
I understand why the negative diplomacy is necessary (especially since your economy scales purely linearly with your size, unlike Civ4) but here is was a bit of a joke; no one got mad until long after they were a position to do something about it. In fairness to the game, that's often not the case on Impossible (or non-dream maps) and the worsened diplomacy can have real impact.
On the other hand, I may have been approaching the wars the wrong way. Instead of taking planets to get peace, I could have used my superiority to take out the bases, then park small fleets over each world, so I could bomb them continuously without destroying them outright. If you get the diplo bonus for each attack regardless of damage inflicted this would be better (I never got the bears to the upper diplo scales despite my rock-bashing, nothing like what Sulla managed in his game).

Thanks to Sullla for sponsoring. Hope my comments don't come across as too negative, I'm in a terrible mood from work as I finish the report. I've seen a few other scores already and know that people did manage to blow me away by getting the doubling; it will be interesting if anyone beats my colony and research scores though (Actually, given the uber artifacts pop I'd be quite embarrassed if anyone beats the colonist one.)

[Sullla]

Those Colonist and Researcher scores are amazing! Once again, the community is demonstrating better than I can the power of a fast start and rapid expansion.

To explain a bit more about diplomacy - the AIs are inclined to dislike anyone who grows too large. I believe this is done by raw population (Council votes) rather than number of worlds, although usually the two go hand in hand. Once you reach that point, it's extremely difficult to stay on good relations with them. Invading their planets and taking them over will NOT improve relations with the AI. I've left AI races with a single planet before, invading everything else, and had them still refusing even to talk with me.

Pretty much the only way to get on the good side of other races once you've reached runaway status is to bomb the worlds of other races that they're at war with. (Think of this as racking up "mutual military struggle" bonuses in Civ4.) Thus you can make friends with anyone in MOO, but only at the cost of making more enemies somewhere else. You'll see from some of the other reports that most of the high-scoring diplo games made heavy use of this mechanism. I know I did!

With some more experience, you'll get used to the oddities of the MOO diplo engine. It's not perfect, but on the whole it works pretty well. It's really something you have to play around over time. And for the record, I think your game is still one of the most impressive I've read.

[sargon0]

Great game. Sullla has pretty much said it all, but if you had achieved a better later diplo score, your doubled score would have been huge! The game guide mentions a diplo penalty with every race for each planet above 25% but changes, bugs & revisions make some documented facts vary from the the actual truth - I stayed small until first vote though. Great base score!

[Doug.Lefelhocz]

In terms of relations I think the manual correct. It's hard to say for sure, but relations can decline for hidden factors. Say the Darloks steal a range tech from the Humans and you play as the Psilons. The Darloks get the right roll and blame you for the steal, so your relations with the Human plummet. Also, erratic leaders get a re-roll on their personality at the beginning of each turn. There also exists a slight chance they will declare war on you no matter the relations or their strength due to a RNG selection. Other leader personality traits have negative effects also, and I think at harder levels you tend to get leaders you like less. Amassing ships on their borders also leads to relationship problems.

[kjn]

Tech -
70 (2375) + 153 (2449) = 223

Thanks to Sullla for sponsoring. Hope my comments don't come across as too negative, I'm in a terrible mood from work as I finish the report. I've seen a few other scores already and know that people did manage to blow me away by getting the doubling; it will be interesting if anyone beats my colony and research scores though (Actually, given the uber artifacts pop I'd be quite embarrassed if anyone beats the colonist one.)

I managed to beat you on Tech, with 237 (91 + 146), but then I pulled IT 20 from Artemis and probably did better tech choices for the first half of the game. I think you messed around too much with the early planetology tree, doing Barren, IT 10, Dead and IT 20 before getting around to Toxic. You probably also spent the BCs on expansion rather than tech for the first part of the game, which shows in your other tech scores. In your shoes I'd probably have gone Barren, IT 20, Toxic; or Dead, Toxic. Backfilling techs can be done later when you have a big base economy and if you have time.

However, since you had a much bigger base for the second half, you started to eat into my lead, but then I also managed to sink 150,000 BCs into ships as well and take Orion (for worthless techs), so I guess it evens out in the end.