[SPOILERS] Lewger goes for the Bigwyn

[Lewwyn]

I think we can do better than mining the furs. Don't play the next turn right away. I'm having a Thanksgiving dinner here this evening but after that I should have some time to work on a plan. In any case I believe we are better off chopping again instead of mining. We want to whip sooner than later which means growing, which means not working Plainsmines. Really we just have to make it to pottery and start throwing down cottages. if we want to get a mine I recommend a Grassriver mine S of the city.

Anyway we have some time.

[SevenSpirits]

Christo's available at Radio (unless they changed it) which is needed for bombers, submarines etc. and is in a very useful place in the tree (near fission, which is even more important due to increased value of uranium).
Compare that to stonehenge, which typically needs to be built before settler, thus greatly stunting growth.

If stonehenge needs to be built before settler, then in order to land cristo you need to tech radio before gunpowder, nationalism and banking.

Christo also provides a full trait compared to stonehenges 1/2, and each comes at the heyday of their respective traits.

In fact cristo provides much more than a full trait, but a trait that only lasts for the last turns of the game is not so meaningful. And in fact most games are decided before anyone gets to radio at all.

[Bigger]

Christo's available at Radio (unless they changed it) which is needed for bombers, submarines etc. and is in a very useful place in the tree (near fission, which is even more important due to increased value of uranium).
Compare that to stonehenge, which typically needs to be built before settler, thus greatly stunting growth.

If stonehenge needs to be built before settler, then in order to land cristo you need to tech radio before gunpowder, nationalism and banking.

Christo also provides a full trait compared to stonehenges 1/2, and each comes at the heyday of their respective traits.

In fact cristo provides much more than a full trait, but a trait that only lasts for the last turns of the game is not so meaningful. And in fact most games are decided before anyone gets to radio at all.

yes, thank you for being clearer than me. I also disagree that radio comes during spirituals heyday. I use spiritual almost exclusively for the religion civics and legal civics - I am not nearly as interested in drafting infantry as riflemen, and by that point I've probably fired off all my golden ages and have much less use for philosophy.

[Lewwyn]

So here's what I've got to about T41-42:



Instead of going to furs and mining, we go south and mine/chop on the Grassforest hill. The other worker goes South to the next shared forest between the two cities. This chop goes into the WB in the new city. That worker then goes to help chop\mine and those hammers go into the granary in the capital. The 2nd city works the spices during this (mostly the grass spices except 2 turns of the plains spices to finish the WB a turn early).

By T42 both cities are only working improved tiles: wheat, rice, crab, RGHMine, and grassriver cottage. The capital has the granary already complete and we are ready to start whipping. The question is do we whip a settler or a Worker first? If we go Settler, we can put 3 turns in and 2 pop whip and have the settler done EOT45. The warrior we finish earlier can have started to go to 3rd site a few turns ahead since we don't need it for MP happy in the cap at size 4. The overflow from the whip will finish the other warrior and the city can regrow to 3 and then 4 very quickly while building a 3rd warrior.

The other option is to whip a worker first. 1 turn into worker then 2 pop whip T43. That should give us 23~ish overflow as well. We can regrow to 3 again in 3 turns then I believe 2 turns to 4 where we'll be ready to put 3 turns into a settler and whip again. If the workers chop into the settler or on T44 we put the overflow into the settler we may be able to speed up the settler there too.

Also possible is that we grow to 5 first (3T). Whip to 3, regrow to four and whip down to 2.

One of the benefits, however, of whipping asap is that we free up a 5food tile for the second city. We are very flexible from T42 on, but I think at least the next 7-8 turns of micro that I have here will be good and a strong foundation.

Thoughts?

EDIT: I had a thought, on T42 if we are going worker before Settler we could give the wheat to City 2 and Cap can take the cottage instead since we don't need to put som many hammers into the worker for whipping. If we go Settler however we will need to keep the wheat because it provides 14hpt and so we can double whip after 3T (14>28>42>Whip). We do need to weigh that against the time it will take to regrow and pump out the 2nd settler though.

[Bigger]

since I know you're doing this by hand - did you factor the changes to slavery in the rbmod in? the nerf really kicks in for 2 pop whipping. don't overestimate slavery in this mod, its not as strong as bts . Krill barely used it at all (from what I could tell) in pb5, and he was spiritual. my point is we'll have a 6 happy cap in the capital fairly early and will probably need more than one hill mined, hence wanting to mine the furs.


anyway I can't evaluate it by hand/in my head, ill update my sandbox and play with it this afternoon.

just by gut I favor worker before 3rd settler - i'd rather not have less workers than cities at any point .

[Old Harry]

I don't think there can be a barb city yet - the lion is still out there (he moved one SW) which should mean there are no human barbs yet, so no barb cities.

maybe this will help. our 2 population represents 6.45% of the global population (azza's level 4 city is 12%, but thats due to civ rounding down for foreign civs - he should really be 12.9). that works out to 31 total global population.
This turn a 3rd city in the top 5 grew 4 - so there are 3 level 4 capitals (including azza) and 2 level 3 capitals. serdoa is still unknown.

so including us and the top 5 cities, we know of 20 population. that means the other 5 teams account for 11 population. unless someone went worker-worker-settler with no military build to grow at all (unlikely I think), that means we have one more level 3 and 4 level 2 cities besides us. This seems the most likely, although i guess we could have a 3-3-2-2-1 situation. or we could have a 2-2-2-2-2 situation and someone has founded a level 1 city already?

serdoa is probably one of the level 2's since he whipped a population point off.

Okay, I think this is right, the points add up at least. Everyone still only has one city:
size 2:
- Bigwyn
- Commodore
- Nakor/Jester/Tatan
- Serdoa
size 3:
- BRickabod
- Mereohoc
- Plako
- Pindicooter
size 4:
- Xenu
- Azza
- SlowCat

[Old Harry]

Continuing our infrequent series "who has which tech":


Purple ones came from huts...

[Bigger]

we have the wheel!! That one doesnt require much C&D at all .

[Old Harry]

we have the wheel!! That one doesnt require much C&D at all .

um... yeah, well I thought you guys were in charge of the home front - I can't be expected to update on everyone else and us can I?

[Lewwyn]

Hrm... I assume that with the rivers we'd have a connection between cities, but I think we may need Sailing for that to work?

We may have to delay the WB by having Ishtar Road in place after finishing next turn's chop thereby connecting the two rivers. Can anybody confirm that that is necessary?