Niccolò Machiavelli's Thread

[plako]

Gillette is either very slow in their diplo or decided to ignore us. We might have asked a bit too much after all. Their military is unimpressive although it has been growing steadily. Couple of Chariots could do lot of havoc. At least we can emergency whip spear from BM although it would delay our main project. Better poke them with a message. Draft below. Please make your alteration suggestions.

Hi,

Turn 70 just arrived. Have you had time to make desicion concerning our deal suggestion?

Since we no longer have NAP I kindly request you to move your military units near our borders towards west.

Tropical Trolls

[pling]

Message looks fine to me, although if we're worried we've asked for too much perhaps I'd change the second sentence to "Have you had time to consider our proposal?" to make it read less like an ultimatum and more like we're expecting discussion?

Their military is unimpressive although it has been growing steadily. Couple of Chariots could do lot of havoc. At least we can emergency whip spear from BM although it would delay our main project.

For what it's worth, there's no sign of Chariots yet - I have their military down as 5 Warriors & 4 Archers. Their recent non-population related power increases have been 3k's and 2k's (except the 4k we have down as Metal Casting, I suppose they could've Oracled something else and built a Chariot but I'd find that less likely).

[plako]

Gillette activated:

It's a shame that you planted closer to the gold, we thought a no settling zone a tile either side of the gold (which I think is the mid-point between us) would make the border easier for us both, but I can see that getting it first ring is pretty important to you, so I don't think we want to dwell on it.

Down south I don't know if we can agree to ceed you a city 1E of the ivory, it just feels like giving up too much territory, and we'd be reluctant to see you plant 2E of it. Can you send an image of the area to help understand why you need that particular spot?

My quick response:

Our cities have been settled according to our original deal. This was the border region we agreed a long time ago.

http://s12.postimage.org/3xnyimmnh/gillette_borders.jpg


I'll had to present your other points to the team before responding to them. Meanwhile since turn 70 just arrived so I kindly request you to move your military units near our borders towards west.

So we need better response. We could try to get more in the north and settle less in the south.

[novice]

Haven't they got a unit there right now, scouting the area they're asking about?

It's good that they feel unhappy about our proposal, we want to push them somewhat.

Let's just say that our proposal feels fair to us when compared to what we would be able to claim in a normal land grab.

[pling]

Can we just tell them we want the Ivory for the happy, that's why we want that spot and we're willing to settle on our side of it (hence 1E) which is why we thought our offer was fair. And say in return we're giving them the better deal in the north?

For reference, here (spoilered) is the attempt I made to get proper mid-points between us & TEAM and us & Gillette:

WIFOM is our side of the line, 1E of the Ivory is over the line. 2E of the Ivory that they hint they might accept if pushed is a peak, the "obvious" city would be 2E1S but that would be too close to the Stone city. So we really don't want to agree to that.

[plako]

Based on new info I would send something like this

To elaborate, a city 1E of ivory is the only way we can dotmap the south without blocking out valuable seafood. The tile 2E of ivory is a peak, and 2E 1S would leave the seafood unreachable. So we cannot really budge on that. Consider that there is lots of good land in the north, including a marble resource right outside our borders. We're not claiming any of that land.

However since our primary goal is to maintain peaceful relationship we're ready to come forward. What would be enough to make the positioning acceptable. We could e.g. gift fast worker when we settle the city in question.

[zakalwe]

I like the 1st part not so much 2nd. 2nd argumentation is hard to justify, when we consider where the fair border would be.

The fair border would be further west in the north. Besides, the point is that we've already settled up to the border, while they haven't.

Anyway, perhaps a better strategy is to "counter-offer" something even more unpalatable in the north.

[plako]

Let's just say that our proposal feels fair to us when compared to what we would be able to claim in a normal land grab.

We can say this, but in reality assuming keeping Pyramids plan we're not in a position to settle there any time soon.

[novice]

Let's just say that our proposal feels fair to us when compared to what we would be able to claim in a normal land grab.

We can say this, but in reality assuming keeping Pyramids plan we're not in a position to settle there any time soon.

We can settle there t82 or so. We might not want to, but we can.

[plako]

Draft sentence to be sent to Gillette:

Our dotmap just doesn't fit properly without a city 1E of Ivory or even further towards west and we naturally also need the happiness resource. If you don't mind close borders, you could settle e.g. 2S from the wheat.

This needs something around it, but this would be my main point. It seems to me that offering something in the north won't work very well. We're much better positioned to settle it. We could also give up our claims here and say that we'll settle N-NE of the marble in the north.