Tree-huggin Timmy

[timmy827]

Interesting idea, could definitely use some pregame analysis of how the economy will go. I generate an Arboria map to look around. It won't be quite as forested overall as the start, but still expect cities to have at least half of their land tiles be forests.

The big thing about the preserves is that they give +1 happy per city. The normal happiness limit in the early game is just totally gone, given enough workers to keep adding preserves. Since we have Environmentalism from the get go, along with Expansive and lots of forests, health won't be an issue either. We can get huge cities very early.

As far as the road restrictions - the good news is with such big health and happy boni, it won't matter if there are some happy/health resources we can't connect. Moving workers around though all the unroaded woods may be a pain though, as could military campaigns. I will probably ignore wars unless boxed in early or have a close neighbor that will likely fight later; a later war when the AI's have chopped a lot of forests near their cities seems against the variant spirit. Of course, wars after the early rush stage are generally not conducive to early culture wins.

For generating the culture, one city of course will eventually want the National Park for 16+ free artists. So I should plan to go to Liberalism + Biology. Other two will try for wonders and a hodgepodge of things. Good news is that on this pangaea-like map I should be able to get a lot of religions. The slider won't be terribly effective without many mature cottages but can probably help.

Finally, the best part of all is that I can likely finish the game entirely on the Industrial Age music

[timmy827]

Since we have to revolt and the start tile is unforested, I move the settler on the first turn, exposing another deer. Move back and found on the start tile.
Research Ag (for discounts) -> AH -> Wheel -> Pottery. Build one worker, then scouts/warriors. Popped both fishing and archery from early huts, also got events - combat 1 for all archery units, and the herbalist. I took the extreme option, probably a bit silly as most cities won't ever touch the health cap, but oh well.

Settler done in 2525BC. First city is a reach to grab marble, which is a godly thing for culture victories.

I don't want the trade connection to depend on OB with other civs, so my settling plan is somewhat dictated by non-forest squares, where I can build roads to forge a link. I seriously crash the economy, for a while I couldn't found that city with the copper because I was at +2 gpt, with the captial working some forest preserves over 5/1 deer tiles. Oracle was built long before I could research Poly/Med, Priesthood, and Masonry.

As expected, this is a bit slow starting; you need a lot of worker turns to build up forest preserves. Settlers and workers come out quick since most cities have multiple deer camps, but hammers for other things (particularly wonders) are hard to come by. A barb city blocks me from a desired location (which became early GP farm and 2nd legendary city) for a while, forcing 4 axes to be built (I get lucky and win all 3 fights against archers at 60% odds), but the 70 gold plundered is enough to finish Writing which allowed the economy to pick up some. The ability to OB with Hatty (only one I'm trade routed with currently) helped as much as the cheap libs.

I wind up adopting Buddhism (only spread) when Louie demands it. He's one of the most aggressive of this maps leaders so I hope to keep him happy.

It's a bit tight on this map, and I have to squeeze in the 8th and 9th cities. Heres a look:

The captial is going to be one legendary city as usual, and it did get the SoZ. Rajavihara is the 2nd, National Epic for early great artist productions (has 4 deer and banana). The third choice is almost geography-irrelevant since it's going to get the National Park for a bajillion arists, I pick Angkor Thom since it has less overlap with other cities, and being founded early has a head start on infrastructure. Yes, there are some roads on forests visible, some are on resource tiles but some were built on clear lands, then had forests grow over them. I thought that was more in the variant spirit then building random cottages/farms on road to prevent forest growth.

Techwise, Aesthetics pulled me out of a big hole because trading it for Alpha let me build research, and over time I brokered through most of the other classical techs while staying on the top side of the tree. The first 3 religions all got to me, but Gilgamesh was spamming Jewish missionaries like no tomorrow and soon I had no religionless cities; I would probably have to self-found additional ones. I was bordering almost everyone and so converted to no state religion, also priortized HR and OR for diplo points (of course, OR is absolutely necessary since we can't build monasteries). After this, beeline to Music for Sistine, then Philo for Taoism (looks like I barely beat Gilg and Pericles to this, nice!). Capital can pull exactly 50 hammers with the marble bonus. I consider trading away Music a couple times when I'm close, and am really glad I don't as two GE's are born rushing great lib and ankgor wat in france and sumeria. I also whipped the Mausoleum in reaction to one of those GEs, finishing about the same time as Sistine in 200's AD. At this point I am mostly preserved up and my economy is taking off with big cities. The only setback was here:

With all-creative leaders, the land got swallowed up really quickly; this might have been the one open spot on the map where they could have spawned. I have to whip a few cities to get enough axe defenders and survive with little pillaging.

I head for Divine Right and found Islam. I get a low odds prophet from my GP farm (stupid auto-specialists), but notice I can do this:

Not really a slingshot, but pretty cool. By 500AD I'm almost done with paper and have opened quite a tech lead on the AIs:

At this point, my forests are just about preserved up. I knew I was going to have a lot of workers with little to do, but I may as well keep them as I'm not paying any unit costs from the large cities.

Next centuires are very straightforward. Acheived the Lib->Bio slingshot just after 1000AD, aided by one GS bulb and Engineering trade. Took a while to get all 5 religions fully spread. I got the spiral minaret but not U Sankore, adopted Hindu for OR bonus. Used one GA on a GA, after Liberalism was first to Nationalism and built the Taj for a 2nd. The GAs were great for finishing almost all of the temple/cathedral infrastructure; since almost all my tiles are grassland forests they basically doubled my production empire-wide. I got Constitution/Corp for economy (went to Rep + Pacifism), then Mil Sci and Steel for safety. I had been checking Cathy and Hatty for WHEOONH, but neglected Louis (who had been stunted, both by being in the center of the map and having few cities, and a long war with Willem. I had to smile when de Ruyter was born during the French-Dutch war...on the French side ) He caught me by surprise near the end of my GA, but I already had multiple muskets, and a bunch of cash to upgrade my axes to grens. He had...no units with defensive boni, HA's, cats, chariots, trebs. Rather silly, given the amount of forest I had in my territory for him to hide in.

What to do...he founded Christianity, but I don't think another religion is worth it, would have to leave Pacifism for a while, and suffer many failed missionaries. Conquering any of his other cities doesn't do much for me either. So I decide to fight limited war; I'm building grens and cannons anyways to deter other agression. Easily beat off his feeble units, losing one worker on turn one and a couple of preserves pillaged. He's willing to capitulate as soon as his strike force is gone, I wait a few turns to capture a city (for gold) and pillage a few tiles (gold, and will be in the fat cross of one of my cities after capitulation; was hoping to get forests to grow over but the end was too close)), then take him as a vassal + a hefty gold sum. Also got a GG, who obviously built a military academy for the culture

After the war, I find that 100% culture is easily to sustain between building wealth and selling off my huge tech lead when someone got a few hundred gold available. I was ranked as #1 on power and signed a DP with Cathy who is #2, I don't really fear anything. Use my Rep specialists + building research to get Communism and Physics allowing another GA right before game end, kicking off at 1500AD. Artist bombs allow Rajavihara to catch up to the capital and NP city, finishing it in 1540.


I realized just before the end that I had erroneously been running 10% cash for while, which was not my intention (other cities building wealth + tech sales was more than enough to pay the bills). If not for that, and if I did some extreme everyone's-an-artist-now to exploit the inablility to starve more than one pop per turn, probably could have moved the date up a few turns. On the more strategic level, the techs after Liberalism probably could have been put into culture slider as well, but I'm a bit too conservative for that and wanted to make sure of safety. Louie's attack force was feeble enough that I probably could have survived fine with medieval units, but that might not have worked against Cathy who was never Friendly and had the tech for curiassers.

Overall this was a good variant concept. Thanks again to Sullla. Now time to wait for the other reports, and see how many centuries T-Hawk beat the field by

[T-hawk]

Ha. Yeah, we did play similar games. Liberalism into Biology for a huge National Park city was pretty obvious. And we both got paranoid enough to whip the Mausoleum.

I never considered the marble location. My first two settlers went for a deer/growth site east of the capital and for the southern copper, then the marble was out of play. I think you overrated the resource a bit, and the grab screwed up your settling plan in comparison to mine; I think my other two legendary sites were stronger. I didn't really miss having the marble, though I did get lucky by Great Engineering two marble wonders.

You spent research chasing Divine Right, which might account for a bit of the difference between our dates. I got access to three religions early, and the AIs were kind enough to send Buddhist and Confucian missionaries later, so I never missed Taoism and Islam. Your Louis war didn't help the win date either.

But I think the biggest difference was that I shut down research earlier, skipping Economics/Constitution/Corp and Steel. I did do Military Science for safety; grenadiers can hold up against anything short of cavalry. Really, Steel? What does that bring for defense? Catapults work just as well to splinter incoming stacks, and surely you weren't doing any city raiding with the cannons.

If not for that, and if I did some extreme everyone's-an-artist-now to exploit the inablility to starve more than one pop per turn

I'm not sure it works that way - I think the game checks food first, then after starvation, reassigns the laborers to food tiles before GPP production. At any rate, it's pretty sketchy and I didn't try it, so we're on equal footing there.

[timmy827]

Ha. Yeah, we did play similar games. Liberalism into Biology for a huge National Park city was pretty obvious. And we both got paranoid enough to whip the Mausoleum.

I never considered the marble location. My first two settlers went for a deer/growth site east of the capital and for the southern copper, then the marble was out of play. I think you overrated the resource a bit, and the grab screwed up your settling plan in comparison to mine; I think my other two legendary sites were stronger. I didn't really miss having the marble, though I did get lucky by Great Engineering two marble wonders.

I disagree, I think that initial reach helped me block off some territory allowing me to settle 9 cities without any major squeezes. My Rajavihara was founded just north of your Song of Planet and those were a wash; mine had 4 deer/1 banana against 5 deer for you. I wanted a location up near Chiron Preserve and with the chance for 5 deer there it probably would have been legendary #3. The reason I didn't get it is that in my game no barb city appeared there and Cathy settled it before I could. Given that I got marble bonus for NE, Maus, Sistine, Taj, and 6 or 9 cathedrals I would happily make the same choice again.

You spent research chasing Divine Right, which might account for a bit of the difference between our dates. I got access to three religions early, and the AIs were kind enough to send Buddhist and Confucian missionaries later, so I never missed Taoism and Islam. Your Louis war didn't help the win date either.

Yeah, I had the three earliest, then Confucianism was founded by Gilgamesh (who was the Jewish founder as well) and Christianity by Louie; Gilg never converted and Louis converted very late, so I had the benefit of knowing that I would need to found Taoism and Islam themselves to get 5 religions. I didn't include the picture in my report, but my slingshot date was only a turn after yours; I think I made up the DR turns with the CS bulb.

The Louis war was actually no obstacle; I was just starting to invest in the new generation of military. I did blow a lot of cash on unit upgrades but recouped a fair amount in plunder and treaty; I still could have sustained 100% culture anyways if I had not misclicked one turn and left it at 90%.

But I think the biggest difference was that I shut down research earlier, skipping Economics/Constitution/Corp and Steel. I did do Military Science for safety; grenadiers can hold up against anything short of cavalry. Really, Steel? What does that bring for defense? Catapults work just as well to splinter incoming stacks, and surely you weren't doing any city raiding with the cannons.

Bad habit, from how good early cannons usually are. Yeah, they are only 20% more efficient in splash damage per hammer than cats, but have greatly higher chances of surviving. Of course in retrospect it was a waste. I'm not sure what I was thinking with Econ/Corp; the +1 trade route most likely had little chance of paying back. I was planning to use the Rep bonus to my artist hordes to creep towards either Comm or Physics for a GP to pair with another non-artist for another golden age, which did happen but I only got half of it before the win (also, the way my GP timers worked out that golden age didn't really help except for the commerce bonus). Your golden age from the Colosseum quest came at a much more helpful time. There's one more big difference in our games, but I want to take some time to think about the choice I made (and need to check some dates from my game) before discussing in detail.