WW 19 Game Thread - Mobster Mayhem - GAME OVER

[BRickAstley]

Brick, could you clear up the contradictions here? I think you changed Item Passes to go last in the order of operations? How does that impact rule 4? I guess it's moot?

Sorry about that, overlooked when I changed the order of operations. I've fixed it now to reflect the new order.

Also, what happens to an item that is passed to a player that was killed that night? Is the item destroyed or does it stay with the person attempting to pass the item?

I'm going to make the ruling that items passed to a player that is killed that night will be lost/destroyed, but Snitches or the person holding the Hold-Out Pistol may not pass items to the target of their night kill. This will be added to the item rulelist.

[BRickAstley]

Official Lynch Vote Count

Tasunke - 5 - MJW, Bigger, Lewwyn, pindicator, zakalwe
novice - 3 - Rowain, Serdoa, Ryan
Rowain - 3 - uberfish, Mattimeo, novice
Bigger - 1 - Tasunke
Mattimeo - 1 - Azza
Serdoa - 1 - Qgqqqqq

Players not voting: Merovech, Selrahc, waterbat

Official Mayor Vote Count

Bigger - 2 - Bigger, Mattimeo
Tasunke - 2 - MJW, Tasunke
novice - 1 - Qgqqqqq
zakalwe - 1 - zakalwe

Players not voting: Azza, Lewwyn, Merovech, novice, pindicator, Rowain, Ryan, Selrahc, Serdoa, uberfish, waterbat

33 hours remaining

[novice]

Im trying to figure out what point would it be to have that as town. If its gone the seer can find people very easily unless.. the seer item is with the scum can that work?

Edit: Seer item is useless for Scum either way.

Scum can't use it (and it makes little sense to do it) and for now at the start of the game we are promised by BRick that a villager has the board.

Then, Since the town has the board we should lynch Novice tbh. I dont see a point in claiming you have the card since Town doesnt need it. It is an item wanted by the scum so he is giving them easy access to it. if hes town and they have the pick pocket item. Im guessing he is the scum. Novice

Two things first:
1) Editing posts is not allowed.
2) There's more than one scum.

As for the fool card, maybe you missed it, but if I'm scanned by the seer (Ouija board) while having the card, I show up as scum. That would cause my mislynch and it would cause the owner of the Ouija board to out himself (to accuse me). Therefore it is better for the town if I claim now to have the card, so that I avoid the scenario above. Claiming to have the card after the above scenario has unfolded would be less believable, and would also be too late to avoid outing the seer.

Make sense?

P.S: The town doesn't necessarily only possess items that benefit them, it's all a balancing act. A seer without a fool is overpowered for the village.

[Ryan]

On the other hand if hes town.. Im trying to understand why he would claim that.

[novice]

novice

[Lewwyn]

Brick, I believe Zak is voting for Tasunke.

[novice]

I guess I see the "the card is useless so we may as well lynch him" angle, but that's no stronger than lynching a claimed vanilla.

The card is dangerous becaus eit can come into hand of scum which makes the few uses we have from the board doubtfull. So lynching a villager with the card is better than lynching a vanilla villager.

For me the lynch-result list reads this:

1) Scum with poweritem (ex: Gun)
2) scum with card
3) scum
4) villager with card
5) villager
6) villager with poweritem

Lynching novice grants us one result of 2,3 or 4 while eliminating any danger of 5 or especially 6. So far I don't see any lynch which gives us a better result.

You have to weigh the odds though. What would you say are the odds of me belonging to category 2, 3 and 4? And what are the degrees of "badness" associated with each outcome? To me the various types of scum lynches are all vastly better than the various types of mislynches.

[novice]

@uberfish your first reacton to my vote was voting me. I have given my reasons for my vote and why I believe lynching novice is a good thing. Where are your reasons to lynch me? Especially what maks me a better lynch than novice?

@novice: Same question but also: You claim your game makes no sense as scum. How does my play make any sense as scum?

Same question? Why are you a better lynch than me?

Well as for your reasons for your vote and whether or not your play makes sense as scum, I concede that you could just be being your typical self, as Lewwyn thinks. Or maybe you saw me claim Fool and saw a chance to vote me off, or at least create yourself a "legitimate" crusade. Afterwards you realized the other heavy hitters disagreed with your assessment and you had to scramble. At this stage of the game though your antitown opinions are enough to warrant a vote.

Also, I think you're reading way too much into way too little here, Rowain:

In general, it seems like passing items around has the potential to generate a lot more information than just holding on to them, as it gets more players involved. So any lies would then have to be expanded into greater webs of lies. Though looking at the actual list of items, I guess I'd really be inclined to hold on to most of them, myself. The card is an exception: it doesn't really matter who has it, as long as we know who that is. But if nobody is actually doubting that Novice has the card (only his alignment), then maybe it's moot.

For one we don't know if novice has the card or not.
For 2 we don't have achance to test any of the other claims if a scum gets his hands on an item. They can happily pass them around each other.
3rd are you really advocating we should pass the items around?? For example the gun?
4th how do you plan to reveal who has which item and to whom it got passed? Especially given that there are nightkills and a pickpocket.
5th does that mean you are for an all around itemclaim?

[Ryan]

But Novice if you are a villager with that card. Wouldnt it be better to get rid of you? That item can really hurt us if it falls in scum hands. I still think you are the best lynch . If your a villgaer with the card then the card will be lost. If you are scum with the card then 2 birds for 1 stone. Unless you were lying about having that card...

[novice]

Serdoa, you sound so angry. Ease up.

Rowain, there's an item seer as well, how does that fit your meta considerations?

Why do you expect that the item seer is village?

I don't know his alignment, I wanted to hear how Rowain's reasoning adapted to the existence of an item seer. He has addressed that since.

If I get to hold on to the Fool card I can just publicize that fact, and we'll have a reliable Ouija board. If the scum have the lockpick and choose to steal my card
1) The cloak could catch them in the act
2) They'd have to leave me with the lockpicks
3) They can't use the lockpicks to steal any other item which might be even more useful to scum

So yeah, I think me claiming having the Fool card is pretty obviously a good play (especially since I'm typically seer target numero uno), and I think you're scrambling to justify your vote.

Brick, will the items in a person's possession be revealed upon the person's death?

Let's assume it will. In that case doing this as a scum gambit would be suicide. It makes no sense.

Not true novice. I have explained that in my last post and if you have that card you certainly have thought about the possibilities. So I find it hard to believe that you didn't realize yourself. Also your above conclusion AGAIN assumes you are a villager. And if not? We don't know that, so the argument doesn't help at all - it just proves that it would be good play if you are village. Fine, we know that. Doesn't mean you are village though. It would be good play as scum as well.

Also, your last sentence is bullshit. If the card is revealed when killed, why would it be suicide as a scum-gambit? You are already killed, so when people find out you don't have the card doesn't make any difference any more for the scum.

novice

I addressed earlier (after you wrote this though) what I did and didn't consider before claiming Fool. Anyway, you say that my argument proves that my play would be good play if I'm village. That's great, since you said previously (in the first post I'm quoting) that you couldn't see how my play benefitted village.

As for my last sentence, my point was that
a) Either I have the card, in which case a seer can still scan me and just reverse the result.
b) Or I don't have it, and someone else (a scum buddy) does. If that scum buddy dies, the gig is up.

Your arguing gets worse - thats actually why I didn't like others defending you, it made it too easy for you.

Please be more specific then and I'll answer your questions. Or maybe my arguing does suck in places. To me it's just obvious that the overall likelihood of the various scenarios points to me being town. I'm probably biased by actually knowing that I'm town, though.