WW20: Legend of the Undercity

[Jkaen]

Zak

What is scummy about 114. The way I read it he believes labelling 4 people as evil as this stage s strange and asks for a reason for that, What do you find strange about that?

[novice]

I think Meiz' post is a decent meta argument for his own innocence. [...] Meiz would need to see a town PM before he could confidently make such assertions. So the only way I see him doing that as scum is if a town PM was posted in the quicktopic.

I agree with this. Unvote.

Holy overreaction, Batman.

Who me? Didn't you vote for Meiz for the same reason?

As others have pointed out, I meant Meiz. Interesting to see the guilty conscience though, Dora.

I just asked because I wasn't sure what you were talking about, so I wanted clarification. Either you were contradicting yourself, or you found Meiz to be overreacting, which I didn't (and don't). My question was hastily and clumsily composed (it was phony*), but I cared more about getting your comment than about what impression my questioning would give.
*phony = composed by phone

About the Meiz voters. I think villagers are at least as likely as scum to jump eagerly on an apparently well-founded case. So I'll reserve judgement.

flug_auto, on the other hand, is indeed triggering lots of red flags.

[Rowain]

Meiz would need to see a town PM before he could confidently make such assertions.

Why? When questioned by novice why he didn't wait longer anto see if others are picking it up too he answered:

Interesting point. But why bring it up now, instead of waiting to see if more players gave off the same tell?

I don't think you could draw the same conclusion later, since baddied would have time figure it out.

How about he did figure it out? Do note that he only had this revelation when he was under pressure with votes from Gaspar and Meiz on him. Do note how easily he dismissed the possibility that Matt was just reacting to Gaspars post? Oh and how well founded his revenge-vote vs me is.

[Rowain]

Meiz would need to see a town PM before he could confidently make such assertions.

Why? When questioned by novice why he didn't wait longer anto see if others are picking it up too he answered:

Interesting point. But why bring it up now, instead of waiting to see if more players gave off the same tell?

I don't think you could draw the same conclusion later, since baddied would have time figure it out.

How about he did figure it out? Do note that he only had this revelation when he was under pressure with votes from Gaspar and Meiz on him. Do note how easily he dismissed the possibility that Matt was just reacting to Gaspars post? Oh and how well founded his revenge-vote vs me is.

Gaspar and novice

[novice]

flug_auto

"No lynch"ers are my personal pet peeve in mafia/ww.

Azza, I hope this will help to change your mind.

Who said there is any villains? Maybe we all are nice guys and there is no need to lynch nobody.

Its hard being a newbie wolf... I really don't want to lynch you first day, but you're so scummy.

BrickAstrley, Lewwyn, Novice and/or Pindicator are the enemies of the Empress's crown. Trust me, I know this kind, been once myself.

flug_auto, have you played mafia/werewolf before? Let me tell you how this reads.
1. You start by voting for nobody to be lynched. You realize this will lead to a village loss? The only way we can kill wolves is by lynching them.
2. Revenge vote + following up with saying we're all nice guys, nobody's suspicious. By not sharing suspicions or even random votes you deny the other villagers information. Going back later and analyzing how various players voted and who they suspected is one of the key methods for catching scum.
3. After catching heat for your opening, you come back with 4 random names, and the reasoning "trust me". This reads like
a) Somebody explained the errors of your previous play to you (in the wolf thread)
b) You've already started distancing yourself from your scum buddies since you've caught some heat.

So, care to explain what's going on?

[novice]

Gaspar and novice

Yes?

[zakalwe]

Zak

What is scummy about 114. The way I read it he believes labelling 4 people as evil as this stage s strange and asks for a reason for that, What do you find strange about that?

The first paragraph commenting noncommittally about Meiz, without bringing anything new to the table, is scummy. Seems like he's very conscious about the fact that he's putting Flug up next to Meiz, in the lead.

The vote for Flug in itself is a bit weak, since he could probably get those answers just by asking. (Remains to be seen, of course.). But mostly it's the way that he feels obliged to comment about Meiz that's scummy.

What are the red flags, Novice? Cross-posting, thanks for elaborating.

[novice]

Either you were contradicting yourself, or you found Meiz to be overreacting, which I didn't (and don't).

Okay I reread and I get it now. This was what you and Serdoa meant with overreaction:

Novice, I thought his comment to zakalwe was a little joke based on the fact that someone basically says that to zak every game. Meiz, I'd expect you to pick up on that.

I actually wanted to see novice's response to this, but gee, thanks.

Thats the overreaction I meant. He is upset that Gaspar answered a question to novice, but it is obvious what the answer will be. There is no doubt about it. Imo that showcases wonderfully the difference between "overanalyzing" someones post or grossly misrepresenting it. His question was the latter. It implied that novice meant this part of his post in honest when it was obvious that it was not.

I agree with this, naturally. It was what I originally voted Meiz for.

I somehow thought the overreaction referred to Meiz's later reply here
http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthrea...#pid336209
which of course it can't be, since it was posted after Gaspar's "Holy overreaction, Batman".

So yeah. Ignore me. Anyway, I still don't like Meiz's "overanalyzing" and "don't ruin my Novice trap" posts, but his reply linked to above was measured and levelheaded, and the meta speaks in his favor IMO.

[zakalwe]

Meiz would need to see a town PM before he could confidently make such assertions.

Why? When questioned by novice why he didn't wait longer anto see if others are picking it up too he answered:

Interesting point. But why bring it up now, instead of waiting to see if more players gave off the same tell?

I don't think you could draw the same conclusion later, since baddied would have time figure it out.

How about he did figure it out? Do note that he only had this revelation when he was under pressure with votes from Gaspar and Meiz on him. Do note how easily he dismissed the possibility that Matt was just reacting to Gaspars post? Oh and how well founded his revenge-vote vs me is.

Gaspar and novice

I think you're right about one thing, that Meiz is being slightly dishonest here. Looks to me like he did indeed bring up those town tells because he was being pressured and wanted to bounce back. I'm not sure if that is scummy, but that's how I read it. "I had to bring it up now or it would no longer be valid" doesn't make much sense. It makes sense if he wanted to make sure he got credit for it, though.

[Bigger]

I think Meiz' post is a decent meta argument for his own innocence. At least, I think viewing it as a scum tell like Rowain does is a stretch. Meiz would need to see a town PM before he could confidently make such assertions. So the only way I see him doing that as scum is if a town PM was posted in the quicktopic.

Hey! you are making good arguments, keep it up, but in DOS command form, please!

These are my thoughts as well. I don't think Meiz is right about town tells on Gaspar or Matt, I got the impression they were both just role-playing, and templars/witches fit with their respective characters.

It is, however, a legitimate town tell on Meiz. Probably his intention all along but still legitimate tell.

I agree that Flug auto looks scummy. I still would prefer not to lynch him on day 1, though. he could just be newbie town unsure what to do.