WW20: Legend of the Undercity

[novice]

Honestly, I'm not too sure about flug or Meiz. I feel like both of the arguments against them are on the nitpicky side, of people trying to read too much into their posts. It makes sense that they're doing that though, since we have a limited amount of information. But they also have a convenient high number of votes on them each, which I think could be the start of some wolf trains.

Uber, can we get a vote count?

I agree with this. So why are you voting for Flug, then?

Actually, what's nitpicky about the case on Flug?

[Gaspar]

It's like Christmas. I have Ichabod, zak and Tasunke on me - all my faves. Maybe MJW can pop in from the lurker thread to vote for me later.

I'd argue in my defense, but there hasn't been an attack, just noise.

[novice]

Random thought. The reason Uber hasn't posted the vanilla PM in the opening post is that there are no vanilla villagers. And like Q said, our PMs are probably customized, so posting a formula for them might not be straightforward. So there's no vanilla PM in the wolf thread either, presumably.

Not sure where I'm going with this though. Meiz can have asked Uber about the villain thing, or the wolf PMs could say that the villagers don't know what they're looking for. Still, I'm kind of reminded of the miller claim from last game - it could be a scum ploy, but is more likely to be the village play that it appears to be. Giving firm claims about what the villager role pm does or doesn't say seems very risky for scum, regardless of what the GM may have told you. There could be unpleasant follow-up questions.

[uberfish]

I'm out there won't be vote count for a while yet

[novice]

Here's a question for everyone around. I think if Meiz is nice and Rowain is a baddie, Rowain would get pretty angry at the GM for giving villagers such an easy way to clear themselves. So someone should look at Rowain's vote against Meiz and analyse if it's an "angry-at-GM" revenge vote or just an "I-suspect-you" vote. I'd do it, but I'm a poor judge of character.

He doesn't seem angry or frustrated to me. Seems like he genuinely suspects Meiz IMO.

First one seems quite unlikely. Matt as calculating evil, the post came 11 minutes later, not much time for calculation. I agree with the last part.

Friends stay awhile and listen while I try to unveil this Demons web
Matt doesn't need to be calculating . He just saw Gaspars post and ran with it. I simple take his answer as playing with Gaspars statement. For me that is neither a town nor a evil tell at all.
Which makes me wonder why you are so insisting that they are both clear villagers. The first thought would of course be that Matt is a villain and he wants to give him cover but I rather think his play makes far more sense if both are innocent (or at least not in his team) and he wants to get villagepoints by declaring 2 as villagers. Do also note how he cleverly uses the same post (and reasoning) to hint that he is of course not evil. IMO he is in alligance with demons and should be ynched as soon as possible.

Meiz

I don't think you could draw the same conclusion later, since baddied would have time figure it out.

You mean someone like you?

@Azza: The fact that a 1 vs 1 is not an automatic evil-win and does not use the equal-votes rule like in other cases is a rather strong hint for me.

[Ichabod]

Ichabod - having trouble making up your mind?

Hey, cutie, haven't noticed you before. I think we are going to get along pretty well, since we are the only two floating heads around.

So, whaddya say?

[Bigger]

Random thought. The reason Uber hasn't posted the vanilla PM in the opening post is that there are no vanilla villagers. And like Q said, our PMs are probably customized, so posting a formula for them might not be straightforward. So there's no vanilla PM in the wolf thread either, presumably.

Not sure where I'm going with this though. Meiz can have asked Uber about the villain thing, or the wolf PMs could say that the villagers don't know what they're looking for. Still, I'm kind of reminded of the miller claim from last game - it could be a scum ploy, but is more likely to be the village play that it appears to be. Giving firm claims about what the villager role pm does or doesn't say seems very risky for scum, regardless of what the GM may have told you. There could be unpleasant follow-up questions.

HEY!

This seems easy enough to solve. why don't you tell us what your win condition is (being careful not to break rule 17)?

I win with the town.

[Mattimeo]

Who said there is any villains? Maybe we all are nice guys and there is no need to lynch nobody.

Agreed that there is certainly 'no need to lynch nobody'. I'd go even further and say there's a need to not lynch nobody.

GM

Lynching the GM generally seems like a poor idea...

I don't think Meiz is right about town tells on Gaspar or Matt, I got the impression they were both just role-playing, and templars/witches fit with their respective characters.

For my part, much as I'm loathe to discount something that's apparently being used as a town tell, this is accurate. I eliminate witches (and their familiars, if advantageous to do so). Is it not natural to assume those I usually hunt are the targets here? Why else would my skills be required?

BrickAstrley, Lewwyn, Novice and/or Pindicator are the enemies of the Empress's crown. Trust me, I know this kind, been once myself.

This needs elaboration. What reasoning is behind your apparent certainty?
flug__auto 'til an adequate justification is forthcoming.

[uberfish]

Vote count

flug_auto (6) - Azza Brick Gaius Mattimeo Lewwyn Novice
Gaspar (3) - Bigger Tas Zak
Meiz (3) - Gaspar Rowain Serdoa
Lewwyn (2) - flug Molach
Zakalwe (2) - Ichabod Jkaen
GaiusMarius (1) - Q
Jkaen (1) - Gazglum
Novice (1) - Pindicator
Q (1) - Ryan
Rowain (1) - Meiz

[Gazglum]

If Flug_auto is town, he’s not doing a good job of proving it. If he’s a wolf, he’s not doing a good job of hiding it. Either way, I’m not too keen on lynching him, because he doesn’t feel like a threat. We can always get him later, and it’s the wolves that swim -beneath- the waves that scare me.

I think that Day 1 voting is a lot more random than people like to pretend. I guess mostly it comes down to noticing deviations from people’s normal playstyle, and not being too familiar with everyone here, I’m not able to do much psychoanalysing there. But I don’t like this reasoning from GaiusMarius –

As for flug, I thought (and still do) that he has been reluctant to post his thoughts. I believed that he needed the extra pressure to finally share some information.

What information is there to share? None of us has information yet, except about our alignment and power. It seems obvious to me that Flug can’t have any special information that made him pick those names, he’s just fishing in the dark. Flug’s clearly erratic and it was a weird thing to say, but pressuring him seems a bit pointless, while jumping on the lynch-wagon for the guy who is perhaps playing less well than others seems cruel at best, and wolfy at worst.

I’ll admit this is a bit of a shot in the dark as well, but I do think that line of names next to Flug’s hides some wolves. I considered Novice as well, but he is at least being proactive in trying to help out Flug at the same time as voting for him.