WW20: Legend of the Undercity

[Lewwyn]

Molach if you're a villager you are pretty cruel. You barely did anything to help flug. You also made the unilateral decision not to post things from the neighbor thread in the main thread without his consent or until his death.

It was OBVIOUS that flug was a floundering villager from the neighbor thread and the posts he put there. And he never said don't post these in the main thread. You just decided you wouldn't even though those posts might have saved him! If you were a villager you would have posted something, or pushed flug harder to post in the main thread. You don't even try hard AT ALL to push brick that much your reasoning is:

Well BRicks switching post was 270, he voiced suspicion about flug then went to ichabod as it picked up steam.

Yes, I'm unhappy with both current defendants but haven't had time to analyze BRick properly. Can't tell if Bigger is better either, at 10 minutes it would be a random shoot in the park.

Molach is referring to this post:

I have to head out and might not be back for lynch. With Bigger's recent showing, and reading of cases, I feel like Ichabod is the best lynch candidate, for many of the same reasons as Serdoa and others say. Hopefully I'll be back before deadline though.

This post is innocuous. Brick was voting Bigger, but decided to vote Ichabod. I don't see anything wrong with it. He was on flug for a while and yes he voiced suspicions about flug, but he also voiced suspicions about Ichabod. He attacked Ichabod's defense later as well. And Flug was obviously floundering but could have been either village or scum. I don't see anything wrong with his switch. TO me it looks like Brick was looking around at targets and scum hunting.

So if voting Brick was an attempt to save Ichabod and flug, sure seems like you didn't try very hard. Also your vote for Brick when you made it was noncommittal! "I haven't had time to analyze Brick properly" you said... then why vote for him?

Additionally Molach your first vote was on Brick. It was a joke vote, but still it makes it easy for you to sort of return to that vote mentally as you've already voted that way before. I think you couldn't justify your vote on flug anymore and you didn't want to vote Ichabod so you just looked for an easy safe target, Brick.

SO the biggest question for you Molach is why didn't you post in the main thread what flug had posted in the QT? Why did you self silence that possibility by telling flug you wouldn't post it without his consent? I mean what if flug had been a wolf? If he had said something scummy in the QT you wouldn't have kept that from us correct? No instead you played the part of the noble and righteous villager. Saying you wouldn't post without consent, which he didn't ask was simply a ruse to make us feel like your hands were tied when flug flipped. You washed your hands like Pontius Pilate.

[Lewwyn]

I currently feel good about the above case against Molach.

I'm going to read up on Gazglum now.

[Serdoa]

Well, we had a waterline-breakage at home so I am now awake waiting for the plumber to repair it. Great fun I can tell you... hope that never happens to anyone of you. I mean you just close the main-valve, call the repair-line and get rid of several buckets of water (of course you have to get the water into the buckets first...). So, looking at it from the outside it probably does seem that bad. But we just got lucky that my wife sleeps badly and awoke from the water-noise when it forcefully poured out of the line. Otherwise we might very well had the whole flat under water before we even realized that something has gone wrong.

Anyhow, as I said, I am sitting now here and waiting for the plumber. So I reread Gaspars post and - as much as that will get me heat for being biased - the only thing standing out for me on the first read-through is that he is taking a non-committal stance on Ichabod. Just read those parts and compare them with what he wrote about others. And no, I don't consider that alone a scum-tell, but it makes me even more wary of Ichabod.

fake-edit: And now the plumber was here, I finished this post roughly 1 hour after I started it and stopped mid-sentence and will go to sleep.

[Lewwyn]

Gaz replies to Gaspar here:

I don't really get what zakalwe is driving at and I don't really care. I'll defend against actual questions/accusations, I'm not going to try and meet some random standard of content when I know I've been trying. I don't get involved in trying to lynch him or novice early any more - if they're alive on day 3 I'll start to take the idea they're scum seriously. They've proven to be valuable enough as villagers to earn the benefit of the doubt. But this whole line of attack is bullshit.

I agree wholeheartedly with this. From what I've read, it seems that Zakalwe, Gaspar, and probably novice are pretty good players. So, barring real evidence, it seems a bad play to try and lynch one of them on Day 1 based off hunches and joke votes. If we kill them and they flip village, that's going to make the rest of the game that bit harder. Let's wait until we have something more concrete to work with there.

Agreeing with Gaspar and "let's not lynch Zak, Gaspar or novice". Well two are already dead and one was a wolf. I'm not sure if his reply is scummy or naive. Either way I'm not sure.

Throughout teh day Gaz is defending against accusation for voting Gaius. And actually I think he does a good job! Surprised me but he came out a bit villagery there IMO.

Then he voted for Ichabod at the end of the day and that felt scummy. He did, however, just post a big Ichabod is scum post so that's actually consistent.

Verdict: Slight village lean. But bears watching.

So to recap my top two suspects are Ichabod and Molach, who I am currently voting for. I'm going to read up on Jkaen next. Probably sometime this afternoon. I just spent my whole morning on everything else...

[Bigger]

So to review so far:

Ichabod I'm still in the middle on but leaning scum now.

Molach as Ichabod's partner, leaning scum. Molach as scum without connection to Ichabod, still a bit scummy.

Gazglum as Gaspar's partner a bit scummy + the flug bit + the late Ichabod vote, no matter Ichabod's alignment.


I think these are my current top 3. But I have barely gone through all of Molach's and Gazglum's posts yet. Next I'm going to finish reading these two and then move onto Jkaen who I saw had an interesting interaction with Serdoa.

Serdoa I now read more village after rereading his posts.



-And yes Brick my first post today was vague and listy... on purpose. It was just a guideline for myself of what I needed to read and investigate today, and something to get down to let you know I was doing so.

HEY!

Love this post Lewwyn. Keep reading you're doing a good job

You've convinced me on Molach. I would rather lynch Ichabod, but could switch to Molach.

Less certain about Gazglum, no real reads on him, would rather see how it looks once the other two are dead.

[Qgqqqqq]

W00t!
GG gaspar, sorry your always a wolf.
Oh and go vig/GG zak.

Anyway, I'm not sure how thuis makes me feel on the ichabod case - I suppose his defending him could go either way really and because my "gut tell" about hism is that he's defended adequately I'll go with that.
Now I think I'll recommit on molach.
Solace I found your explanations (link:http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthread.php?tid=5787&pid=337461#pid337461) inadequate, and think lewwyns recent point on the matter further expanded on this - at the end of the post quoted you mention a post from the QT that you consider an strong village tell (and is supposedly reason for your attack on brick), fair enough it does support him a bit, but it so why didn't you (as lewwyn said) POST IT IN THE MAIN THREAD?
As is, your defence for him was a rather pathetic (well I think he's good based of this stuff I know which I won't tell you.
Plus, im still getting the same impression off your posts.

As to Ryan. - I have a bit of private communication with him (about ffh not werewolf OC) ans I get the impression he's going through a pretty tough time ATM (he doesn't have time for our SG. for example. Null read in game though.

[Azza]

Ah, it's good to be able to talk again.


I think Gaspar's kill indicates that we have a serial killer, rather than a vigilante. I had a town read on him before he flipped, so I can't see it being a vig kill. Unless there are multiple scum teams, which doesn't really make with uberfish's listing of Gaspar = Scum rather than a team name or anything like that, it has to be serial killer IMO.

My impression from Ichabod's posts is that they're too jokey and carefree to be scummy.

Tasunke's been practically unsighted. Rather unusual, not sure if he's just improving his play or has happened to draw scum this time.

Molach gets my vote for now though. I don't like what he was doing with the flug situation at all.

[Azza]

Molach

Seems I buggered up the colouring.

[BRickAstley]

Ah, it's good to be able to talk again.

Could you not talk at night?

[Azza]

Ah, it's good to be able to talk again.

Could you not talk at night?

Part of my role is no night talking.